Rifles/Shotguns

This thread is about your favorite rifle/shotgun and why.

Allen

I am partial to the Remington 870 shotguns and the 700 series rifles.

I prefer my shotguns to be short-barreled so I ended up purchasing a "turkey barrel" 12ga. It is 21" long with interchangeable chokes. I mounted an Aimpoint Comp M Reddot optic to it. It may seem strange to have an optic on a short range gun. The tiny beads on the barrel can be difficult to see in dark and near-dark situations.
BTW, it works great for busting clays with a super full choke. :D
Remington Shotguns can be found here (http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/SHOTGUNS.HTM)
My 870:
http://atlantic.photoisland.com/sessions/71108468822/9729491.jpg

The VLS and VS rifles IMO, are works of art for factory guns. They handle well for me but their weight is not for everyone. The heavy barrel and stock increase the weight factor
Remington rifles can be found here (http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/centerfire.htm)
My VLS
http://atlantic.photoisland.com/sessions/71108468822/9729477.jpg
Updated photo of VLS with Leupold LR 4.5-14x50 Mil-Dot scope.
http://atlantic.photoisland.com/sessions/71108468822/9729500.jpg

Allen

[ARS INC]

Skinny sweet shoty and rifle..I will post pics of mine soon as I get my digtal back, I'm also a 700 man:D

[ELKBOW]

Rifles...hmmm....okay, I'm a 700 fan also, although I have everything from Rugers VTs to HR Varmints to ?

My favorite all around choice is the Remington 700 in .17 Remington. I have used 25gr Hornady's, 25gr Berger's, but currently I am hooked on 20 Hornady VMAX's. I use the .17 for one simple reason....fur. I have never had a .17 exit wound. Now I have exploded a few animals when I missed the mark while they were moving and hit the shoulder....this makes a mess, as the bullet explodes on the outside....oops!

[ELKBOW]

Would someone please explain to me how to include a picture in the reply window so that I don't have to do the attachment?

You've got mail. Nice photo.

Definitely two great American shooting icons!

I've owned both and like both. Good pieces! :cool:

[J.D. Dannels]

I have yet to get a dedicated Rifle.
I use a Mossburg 500 Turkey Gun & a Savage 24 222/20ga.
Am looking for a Hornet Class 17 due to living in a populated area, noise is a negative.

JD,

If noise is a concern, you might want to try a 22 using Aguila Colibri or Super Colibri ammo. These are a little like CCI CB "caps." Very quiet, but the Supers are still pushing a 19 grain bullet at 575 fps. Enough for most varmints at close range. Makes an ideal camp or back yard round. They aren't powerful enough to cycle a semi-auto, but they work great out of a Marlin 81 TS bolt.

Erik

[J.D. Dannels]

Those Augila`s would be fine for small varmints. But am thinking fox & Coyote. Afraid if they got close enough to use those rounds I would do better with a Hammer:)

[Fur-n-Feathers]

I use a beautiful custom Mauser 308 that I baught at an auction.
It is a 1923 (fn) mauser reciever made in Belgium and a new barrel on a Bishup , walnut stock . Great pistal grip , fancy stock .
I also use a Mossberg 835 ulti-mag 12 guage in 3 1/2" turkey gunwith a full turkey choke . Great guns both .

The Mauser was a rust bucket when I baught it . I nursed her back to health and she'll drive tacks .




F-n-F

[Cal Sibley]

Hello Skinny Shooter,

We seem to be kindred spirits. My favorites are also Remington 700's and 870's. My first smoothbore was a 12ga. 870 with the short slug barrel. Come bunny busting season I still didn't have a long barrel so I had to go afield with the stubby rifle sighted barrel. I got used to that sucker and twenty years later still use if for almost everything except ducks and geese. It's easy to carry and quick to point.

ATTN: Elkbow

You mentioned your 700 in .17Rem. My last Remington is a 700BDL in that caliber, and it's really an enigma. I use 24.2gr. of IMR4320 and Hornady bullets. It will print 5 shots at 100yds. into .5" and follow it with a group of 1.25". It's the most inconsistent rifle I've ever owned. I had it glass bedded, barrel floated and trigger lightened. I also scrubbed hell out of it for copper fouling. It's a tempermental rascal at best. I'm a stickler with my reloading and bench techniques, but to no avail. Do you have any suggestions? Best wishes to all.

Cal - Montreal

[ELKBOW]

Cal,
You could have several problems, it appears you are fairly experienced at rifles, so I won't go into the little things, but maybe. If your gun groups well for one load and then spreads out after that....does it keep getting worse if you keep shooting? In other words, your first group shoots .5", then your second goes to 1.25" and they keep getting worse from there? If everytime you clean you get a good group, I would say that you have some rough rifling that is copper fouling much more than it should. Another problem is that you are possibly not cleaning good enough, in other words you think you are cleaning well, but there still is copper in the bore and after the first group it goes bad.

I can shoot at least 30 rounds through my .17 before it starts to open up on the group size, but I prep all my barrels when new. I would suggest that you give it a good cleaning using solvents first and then dry patch and then use Sweets 7.62 copper remover until no more blue comes out of the barrel (the ammonia reacts to the copper and turns blue), then solvent, then dry patch.

Things like the scope being loose or action screw torque could filter into play on the symptoms you are describing. There are a few other things, but it appears to be something to do with fouling.

If your gun hasn't been shot alot, here is my approach to prepping the barrel:

1) Clean the bore as mentioned above.
2) Remove the action and barrel from the stock.
3) Squirt dish washing soap down the barrel.
4) Pour boiling hot water down the barrel from the action end, about one gallon. Grip the barrel with a rag or something to keep your hands away from the heat of the water, the barrel will also get extremely hot.
5) Run dry patches down the bore from the action end (as you always should) until the barrel is clean.
6) Allow the barrel to cool, at least an hour.
7) Place a loaded round (be careful!!!) in the chamber and run a cleaning rod down from the muzzle end (of course be careful here, but this is the only way to do this). Run the cleaning rod down until it touches the bullet and pull the rod back 1".
8) Place a piece of tape around the cleaning rod at the muzzle, marking the point of the rod 1" out from the bullet depth.
9) Now here is the hard part, you need a looped end on the rod, not a jag. You are going to take JB Bore Compound and completely coat the patch and swab the barrel back and forth from the point of entry to the point of the tape. Run the patch back and forth about 10 times.
10) Dry patch the bore.
11) Use solvent to clean the bore.
12) Dry patch the bore.
13) Repeat steps 9-12, do this about 8 - 10 times.
14) Go back to the sink and put dishing washing soap back down the barrel and pour another gallon of boiling water down the bore and then dry patch and let it cool.
15) Repeat steps 9 - 14 again.
16) Let the barrel cool.
17) Put the rifle back together and go have fun.

What I have found this to do is polish the bore, a very very fine polish. Also, bench rest shooters use JB Compound to clean there rifles at matches, I don't go to that extreme. The process above has helped my .17 tremendously. I had another .17 that I couldn't get to shoot, it would start opening up after the second 5 shot group. I sold that one before someone told me how to prep it. I also go into a lengthy breakin process of one shot and clean, one shot and clean, for 20 rounds, then 3 shots and clean, 3 shots and clean for another 45 rounds.

There could be other things, how is the glass bedding done? I only go about 1.5" forward of the receiver. Also very important is torque the front action screw first and then the rear, with less torque on the rear, but far from being loose. Even on light weight barrels that come with the BDL, free-floating seems to work the best past the barrel, make sure there is no contact past the bedding.

Your load is right in there, I also use IMR 4320 and 24.5 grains. Now here is a biggie....what primers are you using? Do not use regular small rifle primers....only use benchrest primers. My gun averages .35" with benchrest primers, with regular primers it averages .8".

Also, get a flash hole deburring tool. The .17 is really touchy about burn consistency. If you debur the flash holes you know you are getting consistent firing.

Let me know how things turn out. Good Luck.

[Cal Sibley]

Hello Elkbow,
Thanks for taking the time and effort to respond about the .17Rem. I think you're dead on about the fouling being at the heart of the problem. I purchased the rifle used, so I know nothing about how the barrel was initially broke in. I had Hart in Pennsylvania glass bed the action, float the barrel and lighten the trigger. They do good work.

I use only Fed210M and Rem 7 1/2 primers in my reloads. I haven't purchased a flash hole deburring tool yet, but will. I also need another .17 cleaning rod. I have a one piece Kleenbore that is a bummer. Their .17cal cleaning jag doesn't have a tip. It's one of life's litle victories just getting a patch to stay wrapped on it. There are tipped jags out there, but Kleenbore's threading won't take any of them in that caliber. I'll get a Dewey or ProShot rod.

As for cleaning I'll try your method. I currently clean with Butch's; one wet patch, wait 15 minutes. then another wet patch, wait another 15 minutes then scrub with a patch covered brush. Then I hit it with Sweets and scrub like hell. I finish up with another round of Butch's. Occasionally I use JB's compound. I use it mainly because I think there is a layering process involved in copper fouling. You'll get the surface copper, but more may well be blocked under another type of fouling and can't be got at easily. I don't know that, only think it. Maybe your method will cure that. I've got quite a few rifles Elkbow, but this one is a pure beast. I generally clean my rifles several times during this ungodfully long Canadian winter. This brute will get most of my attention this year. Incidentally, I feel good about the action screw torqueing and the scope I use. The barrel has good clearance between it and the stock. I didn't like the up front pressure point that the rifle came with. I also find that Varget works as well as IMR4320. That came as a surprise. Thanks again for your assistance.

Cal - Montreal

[ELKBOW]

Cal....
I think you are probably right, it has to do something with the fouling. Sounds like the bedding, etc. is good. If you know someone that has a bore scope, you might want to take a look down the bore, expecially towards the muzzle end, the last couple of inches. Also, look at the throat if you get a chance.

And if all else fails, sell it and get another one :) , thats what I do. As a matter of fact, if I can't get my rifles to shoot 1/2 MOA or better...they're gone.

I use a Dewey rod, what a pain huh? You have to be so careful not to bend them. I got my last patches and deburring tool from Russ Haydon's Shooters Supply, the patches work pretty well. I also got the looped end for the dewey rod from them...I think. The procedure I listed is mainly for new barrels, but can be used on others if they haven't been shot too much.

I tried Varget in my old .17, but that gun fouled bad and I didn't mess with it much, but have a friend that loads it and loves it.

Well, best of luck with the rifle and I hope you get it shooting. I think its time for something new for me, maybe a .19 caliber from Calhoon or something. I have too many hobbies, most of my weekends are either pistol competition or varmint hunting....more varmint hunting since its winter and I don't mind freezing my tail hunting critters vs. sitting for an hour waiting to shoot a stage with the pistol....

adios.....dave.

[Boyd Heaton]

My shoot EVERYTHING gun.....300 RUM,Rem 700 action,30"Hart barrel,Master 1000 benchrest stock topped with a 6.5-20 Nikon in Kelby ring's and base's

[Dom]

Rifle/Shotgun -- sounds like a combi to me. Here's one, a 20ga mag over a 30-06 AND a hornet on the side. Can't beat that with a stick -- instant choice in one nice, small, handy package. And yes, it is my favorite!! Waidmannsheil, Dom.
http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/DomKnoll/BD880A.jpg

[BuckMark Bomber]

Whoa!!


Nice gun!!!
3 guns in one....wow....incredible cool...

[Jack]

Boyd, that is one pretty rifle!
Cal, you mentioned a layering process in fouling. You are correct that there is a layering process. Think about what happens every time you fire a round. First, the bullet goes down the barrel, leaving traces of copper. Immediately behind the bullet is very hot gas from the powder burning. Some of that gas ends up being deposited on the bore, over the layer of copper the bullet left.
If you fire ten shots, you'll have ten layers of copper sandwiched between ten layers of powder fouling.
A bronze brush will do a fair job of cutting thru the alternating layers. So will JB. IME, a nylon brush will not.

[Ghogsinper]

I have a Rem 700. and if you go custome the 700 action is used alot. Like what I really want. Here it is the McMillan Tac50. Not a rem action but they use them on the smaller cal. But it is a remington tigger.

[Ghogsinper]

Also add that this is like the one use by the Canadian sniper to set a record. http://www.snipersparadise.com/articles/2430kill.htm
There is the link.

:D A photo of the group. Canadians can kick a$$ with the the best of them.

[handgun357]

Believe it or not, my favorite shotgun is my N.E.F. Survivor single shot 20 guage. I think it is the fav because I've taken alot of deer with it. Love those rifled slugs..............

[VarmintSniper]

Only own one rifle at the moment. Just wanted to make a good predator gun which it's accurate enough. Just haven't had time to get out now :( . Howa in .223 with a Weaver Classic scope.
Mike