Wal Mart Guns

[Chaney101]

I hear that Wally World guns are massed produced to keep cost down and the quality is not that of a dealer. Does anyone have any input or experiance in this matter.

By the way guys I am looking at a model 70 270 WSM vs. Browning A bolt Medalion 270 WSM. Any input here would be great. Thanks.

[Hawkeye6]

Think about it.

[Nulle]

Don't know about that ? I would think Remington - Savage - ect are just what is marked on the gun and doubt if there is a seperate little factory putting out junk guns and having name brands on them.
Volume is the key in the lower prices if there is one.

[RUMLUVER]

Wal-Mart keeps cost down by purchasing in enormous volume. I don't think any firearms manufactures are producing guns any faster or chearper just for Wal-Mart. Point being I think most major manufactures have gone as fast and cheap as they can with most models I shudder to think they would go any lower.

[skeet]

Not hardly. The guns that Wally World sells are in many cases the lower priced models from the major manufacturers. They don't HAVE to make them any cheaper..they are already cheaply made anyway. In the past some companies such as Sears and Montgomery Wards had guns made especially for them to their specs. They WERE made a little cheaper!

[M.T. Pockets]

I have absolutely no idea that Walmart has any type of agreement with any firearms manufacturer. I agree with the statement that the lower end guns are already made as cheap as possible and there is no room to make them any cheaper.

That said, I visited with a fishing tackle rep. who told me that Walmart did strike a deal with the company he worked for (a major tackle manufacturer). They cut a few corners to make their tackle a bit cheaper, e.g. one coat of paint on a jig head instead of two. These were made and sold specifically for Walmart. This is second hand so take it for what it is worth. I have learned that often times things are cheaper for a reason.

[skeet]

To give y'all an idea about the way one company is working their sales... A major manufacturer fired one of their VP's because he wasn't following the company line. They had decided that they were going to cozy up to the marts in the country to sell most of their products. He was the VP that was in charge of wholesale distributor sales to gun shops distributors in the normal gun trade and also gun club sales. So now their big push is to Wally World K mart and places like Dick's Sporting Goods and Cabela's. They even did away with most of their product Reps(who sold most of the stuff to Distributors etc). In fact..the Company no longer sells clay targets to gun clubs or distributors...but you can find their product at Cabela's and Bass Pro..among others. Sigh..I guess it is the way of the world....but it makes for higher prices...and less profit for the company itself. BUt they are owned by a holding company anyway...Just a way to bankrupt a company and make it look legitimate.

[tooldummy]

I don't know. A friend of mine bought a new gun the other day and the guy he bought it from is also a gunsmith and swears there is a big difference between a dealer gun and a Wal-Mart gun. Another forum I visit had this same post on it and they swear they are the same guns. Either way, I just don't like buying guns from Wal-Mart. I don't like being treated like a criminal for wanting to do business with them.

[skeet]

Hey Tooldummy,
Been doing this for a lot of years. Now think...in who's best interests is the gunsmith thinking. Most smiths sell guns ..or have close ties with gun shops so of course the dealer guns are "better made". Not! The way Walmart works their acquisition of stock, is in the business world, draconian..but sometimes they are the only game in town when you need to make a profit on inventory that may be languishing in the warehouses. The way WW works is they buy a large amount of goods at a set price...then in the contract there is a clause that states if they don't sell a very large percentage of the goods in a set period of time they will receive percentages back in the form of cash discounts..That is how they keep lowering prices on so many articles...to the loss of the manufacturer...not them. Good business sense for them...bad for the supplier for certain! But they have a very large order base. More than one company has gone out of business because of dealing with retailers like this.

[tooldummy]

Oh no, don't get me wrong Skeet. When my friend was telling me this, that's the same thing I told him. I don't think that's true at all. But he offered to do a side by side comparrison of a Remington 870 for him. I'm going to go up and look his shop over, and I think I will just let him show me. I've in the past bought guns from Wal-Mart and dealers and couldn't tell any difference, and truthfully don't think there is.
I just don't like buying guns at Wal-Mart, or K-mart, or any other Mart. I don't like the way K-Mart buckled to the anti-gunners a few years back with handguns and handgun ammo. My feeling is they are driving the small gun shops out of business and then, when they buckle to the anti-gun crowd and stop selling guns, where are gun customers going to go then? I also don't like being escorted not only from the store, but completely out through the parking lot to my vehicle. I know it's only for safety, blah blah blah, but I don't like it.
I understand their buying in volume discounts and all that. I had a small engine repair shop. Wal-Mart sells mowers cheaper than I could buy engines.

[wrenchman]

it is seen a lot in in many industrys its called a bulk purchase when you buy truck loads of guns even if they are bottom line like a express 870 you could get them cheeper

[fabsroman]

I think you will find that the guns are the same in quality as long as you are comparing the exact same model of gun. Now, if you want a quality gun, I wouldn't look at Wal-Mart too hard because they just do not carry the quality merchandise (i.e., the carry the entry level stuff). Personally, I wouldn't buy a gun from Wal-Mart of K-Mart, but if those stores help a couple of people get into the hunting/shooting sports each year, then I am all for it.

As far as escorting you out of the store, I think that is completely stupid. If you really wanted to rob the store or kill somebody in it, what would prevent you from going out to the car, loading the gun, and walking right back in? NOTHING. Most people are smart enough to know that a 12 ga. shotgun will take 12 ga. shells, so they could stop at K-Mart on their way to Wal-Mart, pick up a couple of boxes of buckshot, buy a Remington 870 at Wal-Mart, go out to the car, load the gun up, and blast away in Wal-Mart. If they don't get caught, they could stop back at K-Mart on the way home and start blasting there too. Being escorted out of the place would irritate me, but I can understand if they escort you to the register because that gun is a high ticket item in those stores. Kind of like when I buy computer memory at Best Buy and they escort me from the sales floor to the cash register and hand the memory to the cashier. The couple of shop lifters out there make it bad for the rest of us.

[denny]

Several manufacturers do make products exclusively for sale at WalMart: Winchester makes a version of the synthetic-stocked M70; Remington laminated M700 ADLs; Weatherby Vanguards, are just a few that come to mind.

A Rem. M700BDL at WalMart is the same rifle you can buy anywhere else, same for most other popular rifles. Your local gunshop buys their rifles from a wholesale distributor. WalMart, KMart and most of the other chains buy theirs in great quantities, so they're getting theirs at a lower unit cost than the local guy that has to deal with a middleman.

Not hard to figure out, really. The big chains buy tens of thousands of a particular model per year. Your local shop buys a fraction of that, as does his distributor. WalMart often sells things like the Mossberg 500 for less than the local dealer has to pay wholesale for them. Such is the nature of marketing.

[skeet]

Quoting denny...Such is the nature of marketing.... It really is a terrible way for a company to stay in business. At one time the price of guns was very well controlled by the manufacturer. Brownig guns were sold almost exclusively at retail. Remington and Wichester may have been discounted but not much. Those days are gone though. After being in the gun business for a whole lot of years..I learned how to compete with the Marts. I sold the guns they sold so few of. I got out of the entry level gun sales and got into the better grades. In fact I even got into high grade and collectibles. Still sold some of the entry guns...but mostly to people who wanted the expertise of the gun trade. Not the guy in the Mart who says he really doesn't know about the gun. The small gun shop is going the way of the buffalo but not because of a lack of demand. Go to Cabela's...You have to take a number to look at a gun there. so the demand is there. A real shame. Hate to see the small shop going away:(

[fabsroman]

What makes it really tough for the small shop is the cost of inventory. If they are going to carve out a niche market (i.e., collector and high end guns) to compete with Wal-Mart and K-Mart, they have to invest a ton of money in inventory to have something for the customer to look at. I know I would want to look at a gun before I dropped 10K on it, or for that matter, 20K. If the small shop were to have 20 guns that cost them 5K a piece, that would be $100K in inventory. Financing $100K in inventory would cost them several thousands of dollars a year, and that is only if they stocked 20 guns. Imagine if they stock a bunch of guns and some of the real high end guns. Of course, I am assuming that the wholesalers aren't letting them have the guns without paying for them up front.

When I am in Wal-Mart, about the only thing I look for is gun cleaning supplies and ear plugs. I have looked at the gun racks every once in a while just to see what they are carrying, but I doubt they would ever carry anything I am interested in other than a Ruger 10/22. Then again, if you go to Wal-Mart's website, I seem to remember that you can order some of the nicer guns on its website.

Just checked out Wal-Mart's special order gun portion of its website and it appears that you can order almost every semi auto shotgun from Browning, Remington, Mossberg, and Winchester. They also have o/u's on the site from Winchester and Remington and I believe Charles Daily. They have bolt action rifles on the site from Browning and Remington, including the Browning A-Bolt and the Remington 700 BDL. From the looks of it, they had plenty of rifles for sale in the special order department. For some reason, I remember talking about this before on this chatboard.

[Mil Dot]

Much of the situation with Wally's pricing has to do with volume buying of specific models, calibers etc. If you think that Wally deals with the same wholesaler as a small gunshop owner does ... not! They deal directly with the company involved thus cutting out the wholesale middle men and their margins. Most of the guns you see on Wally's shelves are for example 30-06, 7mag, 270 or the popular caliber of the day. They are all about volume and moving product be it guns or tennis shoes. They don't like stagnant inventory either and monitor what moves in what stores so if they have certain guns for over a certain amount of time that haven't rotated, here comes a roll down in the pricing to move the stock and free up inventory $ for better movers or new looks. This is when you can pickup some outstanding bargains at Wally world. Now, that being said I've never seen any deals like this at the Super Wallys, only at the smaller size stores so it may be possible that if a new line of guns is coming in that the Supers' get the cream of new product and the older lines are reallocated to the smaller stores forcing them to eat the markdowns and keep the Supers looking like shining stars to the stock holders. Of course, I'm just speculating on the reallocation theory and you will never find any corporate official who would fess up to that, but ....

Most small gun shop owners deal with middleman wholesalers, not actual company reps and of course, they have their own
"volume pricing program". For example if you wanted to be a Remington salesperson and went to their website to apply for the position you get redirected to a company in whichever region of the country you wanted to sell their guns in and would have to meet the secondary employers requirements to sell remington guns.
So now as a customer you've paid the company cut, the 1st level resellers cut and the secondary sellers cut and then are completely dependent on the amount of merchandise your local gun shop has purchased from him in order to get his lowest pricing matrix and thus the lowest price he can sell it to you for.
In other words, there are a lot more mouths being feed when you buy from the local Mom & Pop shop. Then multiply it by the number of manufacturers they carry so the customer has some variety to choose from. You can't just sell Remmy's.

[Hawkeye6]

I recently picked up a Winchester Model 94 Trapper in .44 Magnum thought Wal-Mart's special order system. Basically, you have to put 50% down when you order it and pay the rest when you pick it up, perhaps a couple of weeks later.

The store will call a distributor when you come in to do the Special order and start the ball rolling if the distributor has it in stock. Don't know what they do if the distribuotr does not have it ready.

You need to inspect the item really closely when you come in to pick it up as Wal-mart has a no-return policy on firearms. The first Trapper in had rust on the rear sight so I refused delivery. The second time, I had to insist on them taking it out of the box and looking it over thouroughly.

Why did I buy it from Wal-mart? Price and availablilty. And curiosity. I wanted to see how their special order system worked. And a friend of mine had tried to order a similar rifle from a local gunshop a year or so earlier and they could not come up with one through their network. Said it would be another 6 months or so due to Winchester's production schedule. (He later found one "close enough" at the right price in another local shop.)With Wal-mart, the whole process, including hte return and the re-order, took about a month.

Would I do it again? Probably. Thinking about a Marlin Guide Gun for sometime next year. Again, the Wal-mart special order price is about the best I've seen.

Over time, I have purchased about half of my arsenal from large stores such as Wal-Mart and Galyans. The other half half hss been from smaller shops. The process has been aobut the same ineither case. And the knowledge of the people working the gun counter has been pretty good overall as well.

H.

[sladek]

Well I don't shop at walmart anymore because of their unethical business practices, and the way they treat their employees......as far as cheap firearms, I believe it, walmart has/will ask Manufacturers to make something cheaper so they can reduce their prices, forcing these Manufacturers to produce cheaper products to keep up the demand from walmart, if they can't walmart threatens to go over seas to china, so they either make cheaper stuff or lose their business to walmart, most of the crap from wallys is made in china, not usa.......but as far as Remington and others, maybe they sale the bargin guns to wallys, i could not answer that, but it would not surprise me......so we get cheaply mad crap from America or china, and we lose American jobs, either way we all lose with walmart...

[Ken14]

After spending 11 years with Wal-Mart Quality Assurance...let me tell you guys...they do buy in massive quantities...back in the mid 80's I helped count a 53' trailer loaded with Model 94's from front to back about waist high....and the prices on the purchase order..WOW...they did get a deal.

[wrenchman]

I have bought guns from the marts, Gander Mtn, Cabelas, gun shows and dealers. I like to buy them where I find them.
I can say my best guns come from shows and dealers but my work horse 870 I got from a Gander sale. I paid 178 dollars new
with a rebate.
I hunt deer with it most the time. I have had it so wet the stock has swelled and the receiver had a light rust on it.
I cleaned and oiled the gun, put it in the cabinet and you can't tell it looked that way a month ago.
I got the gun because I didnt want to ruin my favorites with the bad weather. The gun has held up well.
I didnt think I would like this post in the beginning. I was afraid it would turn into just a bash the marts. I do shop at them and I still go to my favorite dealer and shows.
The dealer in most areas are the go to guy for accessories and the nicer stuff.
I have been looking to replace a scope on my 270 with a Burris or a Leopold it will most likely be a dealer thing.

[Hawkeye6]

Originally posted by Ken14
After spending 11 years with Wal-Mart Quality Assurance...let me tell you guys...they do buy in massive quantities...back in the mid 80's I helped count a 53' trailer loaded with Model 94's from front to back about waist high....and the prices on the purchase order..WOW...they did get a deal.

And, Ken, are you able to offer any thoughts on the quality of these rifles?

Mass quantities do not, in and of themselves, indicate poor quality. A mass purchase will, oftentimes, lead to a reduced price from the manufacturer as he's running esentially no inventory risk or carrying cost and very little distribution cost comapred to selling the same number through ordinary channels. Sometimes its even very advantageous to the manufactuer as it may allow for a more eficient manufacturing run.

[Lone Star]

The days of "ethical" business practices for Walmart died with Sam. Today it is not all about volume; that is certainly a large part of it, but "forcing" vendors to sell to a particular price point is just as important, regardless of the volume. If a vendor wants shelf space in Walmart (and most vendors will kill to get it - no shelf space at the world's largest retailer means a mediocre sales year for many companies) he has to meet Walmart's price. How does he keep meeting a lower and lower price every year (Remember: "Always Low Prices" and "Rollback!")? He reduces his cost of production. How? He reduces the quality of what he sells. More and more firms are having their products built in China to meet the price point - how many of you bother to look at where the Walmart products you buy are actually made? This includes the larger "name" brands too.

How does this apply to guns? Well: because Walmart is such a huge account for the gun makers it buys from, Walmart CAN have special runs of guns made just for its shelves, with cheaper stocks, cheaper finish, etc. The order volume is there and since they buy direct from the maker.....they get special runs just like Davidsons and Grice do. Does this happen often? I have no idea. But it can and does happen. Remember these facts when you go to Wally's, the quality of all their products is erroding as they insist on that hard-line price point. And we are their facilitators.....it's all about the money.

[Ken14]

All the ones i ever counted were of good quality...it was hard to look when the security folks were hovering around. Never saw anything different with labeling or such.

[fabsroman]

I looked closer at the Wal-Mart site today and found that they carry a bunch of bolt action rifles, the most popular of which are Browning, Mossberg, Remington, Ruger, and Winchester. However, there were a bunch more too, but I just hadn't really heard of them before. They could special order almost every bolt action made by Ruger, and I was really impressed with that fact. I could get the Ruger 77MKIIVT in .25-06 for $577. Now, I don't know if that is a good price in today's world because I haven't done any shopping around, and I think I got my Ruger 77MKIIVT for less than $500 6 years ago. However, once I have the chance to do some research on the gun (i.e., when I actually have the cash to buy it), I will have a better idea.

Anyway, I digress. With such a wide variety of guns offered from each manufacturer (i.e., almost their entire line of that type of gun), I would think it would be really hard and time consuming for the manufacturer to re-tool or use cheaper material just for a Wal-Mart run. Plus, I seriously doubt that Remington or Ruger would be selling a 700 BDL or 77MKII that is made crappy just for Wal-Mart. Those guns are these companies' bread and butter, and a bad rep on these guns would more than likely sink those companies.

I know I'll be looking at Wal-Mart for a special order gun when I am in the market, as long as they are competitive in pricing.

[Lone Star]

You actually think that Remington is worried about its "reputation" when there's money to be made? Don't forget, it offered the infamous Viper for sale. And it sells the plastic M710, aka the Walmart Special. And you didn't think that a company would re-tool to make firearms for Walmart! These two were designed to meet the price point of the big box stores, where Remington and others make a large percentage of their sales. Enough said about "reputation". ;)

I'm not a rabid anti-Walmart activist - I shop there too. But I am an informed shopper and know the difference between decent quality and the "Wally-Specials" made cheap to meet a rediculous price point. Just because it says Black & Decker or Stanley on the label doesn't mean it is a good quality product.

[fabsroman]

Okay, lets assume that a Remington Model 700 rifle, with the exact same specs, is made a little cheaper for Wally than for Dicks Sporting Goods or another small retailer. Wouldn't there be a possible fraud action against Remington? The same exact model from place A to place B should be essentially the same. Now, what I do know is that some of these quality manufacturers might make things for Wal-Mart but package it under Wal-Mart's brand. For instance, Ol-Roy dog food is Wal-Mart's brand of dog food; however, I do not know if Wal-Mart actually manufactures it.

At the end of the day, I would believe that reputation does matter to small companies like Ruger and Remington. If I am spending $577 on a Ruger rifle at Wal-Mart, why wouldn't I just spend a couple hundred more to get something of quality from Sako instead of the Ruger, assuming that it was made like crap for Wal-Mart, or better yet, just buy the Ruger at a small shop and pay a little more.

I am sure we would have heard a lot from fellow shooters and hunters with the Wal-mart "garbage" Remington 700 rifle, but I haven't really heard of anybody complaining about a specific instance where their Wal-Mart gun was a POS compared to their buddy's identical gun that was bought at the local dealer instead of Wal-Mart.

With that said, I am sure that Wal-Mart does have some crappy guns made for it, like the Remington 710 that I would not touch with a 10 foot pole, but I have also seen that POS for sale at Dick's. I just think the 710, although crappy and probably cheap, fits the bill for the walk-in customers at Wal-Mart.

Another point is that the Ruger 77MKIIVT I want is listed at $577. That isn't necessarily cheap in my book, so I would assume that Wal-Mart is not getting a special run of them made by Ruger with crappola steel. Plus, how many of these target/varmint guns do you think Wal-Mart sells each year? I doubt a lot of people go into Wal-Mart and ask to special order it. In fact, I was thinking about buying mine from a dealer 10 miles north of me, and only stumbled across the Wal-Mart site through this website.

Sure, Wal-Mart probably gets a quantity discount from the manufacturer, and it definitely avoids the middleman, but I seriously doubt that Wal-Mart makes contracts with these gun companies to have them make cheaper guns. In fact, I am willing to bet that these gun companies are already making the guns as cheaply as possible. I have a friend that works in DeWalt's corporate headquarters as a bean counter. An assignment he once had was to put all their parts/raw material supplies for these tools on a spreadsheet and then call around to see if they could get the same parts/raw materials at a cheaper price and/or beat DeWalt's current suppliers into charging less. However, DeWalt never once thought about building anything that was less reliable. Oh yeah, DeWalt is owned by Black & Decker.

At the end of the day, I think a Black & Decker Model 919 (ficticious model #) screwdriver purchased at Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Ace Hardware, or the mom & pop store will be the same thing. Granted, every screwdriver will have a different failure point, but I bet on average the ones bought from Wal-Mart will be the same as the ones bought from all these other stores.

[Steverino]

I've been following this thread for a little while and have decided to chime in on this. Good post.

I have spent the past twenty years of my career in manufacturing Supply Chain Management and speaking from a pure cost-accounting/ manufacturing standpoint, part of manufacturing (Purchasing) anything is beating your supplier base to death to obtain the best component or raw material price. The fancy schmancy term of late that the consultant guru's like to drop is "cost-down initiatives" We go through it at my company continually and it is typically in folks annual goal objectives for those of us that work in this type of capacity. Any pricing reductions hit the standard cost of the item being manufactured/assembled and thus, in theory at least. the gross profit.

Obviously, negotiating these cost-downs vary upon different scenarios such as volume, delivery, warehousing, and payment terms. If a company can find components that match form, fit, and function, along with delivery- they don't care where they get it from.

The sad fact is that most folks at Walmart buy on price and price alone. If an item is truly crappy, I don't care how much of a deal that someone got on it-the item will not survive if the product does not function properly. A business turns out enough crap-it too will succumb to competitors. I can go on and on but I won't.

I do not know if Walmart actually has any models engineered and manufactured specifically for it's stores but if the volume and pricing points support it, I certainly do not see why a firearms manufacturer wouldn't build cheaper product lines if it is cost-effective to do so and they are a profitable line.

Personally, I have never purchased a firearm from Walmart (hell, I'm lucky if I can find an occassional box of target shells for my shotgun!) but wouldn't even try to special order because of the woes that I have read about over the years from other buyers.

I would do whatever you can to support the local shops because I believe they will at least stand for your Second Amendment rights. The Walmarts around me are crap and have succumbed to local ordinances and restrictions over the past decade in the surrounding area. I am all for business but as a sportsman, I try to support businesses that support what I believe in when possible.;)

[RUMLUVER]

I agree with supporting your local gun shops I do. I drive 7 miles farther from my home than my local Wal Mart is to do my shopping for my supplies. I pay more than Wal Mart prices but don't care because I get called by my name as I walk in and get deals on everything I buy. Most of all the people that work there are my friends now and we just hang out drink coffee and BS about eneything just like my farther used to do when I was a kid. I can't wait until I can take my kids there and teach them the value of business with a hand shake and a smile instead of Wally Worlds mass crap of get in and get out!

[fabsroman]

That is pretty true. We all want great service and somebody behind the counter that can answer our questions, but then we do not want to pay for it.

I guess that is why I use this board so much. I figure there are enough people on here that know something about what I need to know that I do not need to pay the premium price of the small shop.

Eventually, I think most business will be done via mail order and the internet. It was just too easy for me to order an air hose over Sears.com 2 days before Christmas instead of going to the mall, dealing with the traffic, and dealing with the lines in the store. Granted, it will probably take a week to get the hose, but I'm in no hurry.

[RUMLUVER]

I do my fare share of research on my computer and order things from time to time. But I find myself dealing with people face to face as much as possible. I buy jewelry for my wife from a man that my father did , he calls me by my name and we attend church to gether. We also do transactions with a handshake and a smile. He appreciates my pratronage and treats me well by doing things for and cutting me deals that he doesn't do for everyone. We had a conversation one day about a person that came to his shop looking for a ring once. The customer looked at the price and blurted out that it was way more than one he saw on line Brian the jeweler said then buy it on line then send it back to be sized and cleaned and repaired when damaged. The customer said the online store didn't do that and Brian said but it's cheaper online. I think that sums up chearer isn't always better and some things are worth the hassel of leaving home.

[fabsroman]

I'll agree with that too. Luckily, I can do most of my own gun work and car work, so ordering the parts on-line isn't too bad. Then again, I also learned that it is sometimes better to go to the local Advance Auto Parts store to order parts. I tried to order some Bendix brake rotors from their on-line site and they sent me some no name junk but charged me the same price. I went through hell trying to get the Bendix rotors and finally settled, if you want to call it that, for Brembos from another retailer. However, I was told a week later that the Brembos would take about a month to get. Mind you, my car had already been sitting on jacks for two weeks. So, I up and decided to go to the Advance Auto Parts store and buy whatever they had in stock to put on my car. While I was there, the guy told me he could get me the Bendix rotors in a day, and I asked him if he was sure because the guys on-line were telling me 2 to 3 weeks. He told me that I should never deal with the on-line site for serious parts because they only got their parts in Arizona. This guy told me he could get me the rotors in 24 hours through a local distributor. So, I waited a day.

I did the same thing with my wife's engagement ring. There was no way I was going to order a stone and setting over the internet, even if they let me inspect it for 10 days.

In the end, it all depends on what we care about. You can bet that I will not buy a car on-line, but I will haggle about the price via e-mail.

So, that means that I have to rephrase the post above.

Most transactions will occur via the internet, with the exceptions being somewhat few for high dollar and technical purchases and the need right now purchases.

[PJgunner]

One day, while cruising through the lanes at a gun show, I spotted what looked like a winchester M70 Black Shadow in .300 Win. Mag. The price was right and I bought it. When I got it home, it didn't have the hinged floorplate of the Shadow. The guy said he was selling it because it kicked too hard. I would think so. What purported to be a recoil pad was as hard as the Rock of Gibralter. I replaced it with a Pachmeyr Decelerator and did a bit of a trigger job on the rifle. That rifle is now one of the most accurate rifles I own, with 180 gr. hot handloads doing .75" and hot 200 gr. loads pushing the .5" level. I later found out this rifle is a special version made exclusively for Walmart to sell for $350. I paid $295 for it. I did replace the crappy Simmons scope that was on the gun with 3x9 Leupold vari-X II. I would be hard pressed to part witht hat rifle, if the truth be known.
Paul B.

[fabsroman]

Now when you say that it was a special version made just for Wal-Mart, does that mean that the local gun shop would not have the same identical model? I would assume that the Wal-Mart model is sort of like the Winchester model of the Browning Gold. Same gun with less bells and whistles. Sad thing is that all of my rifles have a floor plate in them, but I prefer to take the cartridges out by hand or via the bolt.

[denny]

That particular M70 was made exclusively for Walmart, as were several other firearms model variations from other manufacturers. When that M70 synthetic first appeared in Walmarts, there were many mentions of it on the internet, as some didn't notice it wasn't actually a Black Shadow until they looked closer.

A couple years ago I came aross a new M700 ADL with a laminated stock, matte-finished metal, at our local Wally's and was told that model was exclusive to Walmart too.

Don't know if it's still the same, but for years Walmart was the only place one could buy the Weatherby Vanguard (Howa) as well.

In one of your earlier posts, you referred to the Rem. M710 as being made for Walmart, but you also saw them at Dick's.

No such connection to Walmart, as that POS is available at any gunshop and always was. It was Remington's sorry answer to inexpensive rifles such as Savage sells and can't hold a candle to a Savage, in my opinion.

I have never bought a firearm at Wally's, but will say that the one closest to me has an impressive variety of green box Rem. ammo in stock, at decent prices. What little factory ammo I purchase though, generally comes from a local small shop.

Do occasionally pick up a few boxes of sale-priced 30-06 ammo for a relative, from places like Walmart, Dick's or Gander Mtn. He tends to my hunting camp that's in his neck of the woods, I buy the ammo he likes. It's a good deal for both of us.
;)

[woodteacher]

My wife has worked for Wal-Mart for 20 years. She ran the sporting goods dept. for some time. They order their guns from the same wholesalers as other gun shops. One I know of is Ellett Brothers. They have an order book under the counter. You can order anything you want. I've ordered mod. 70 featherweights, Ruger 77's, etc., etc. A buddy of mine who owns a gun shop uses Ellet Bros. for some of his ordering also. Ask to see their special order book. Last fall I ordered a Ruger Compact .308 and a Ruger M-77 mark II Ultralite in .243. They had them in 3 days. This is just a misconception people have. If you buy a gun cheaper than your buddy it is not going to shoot as good as his.

[BRUNORED]

just started sighting in new 22 mag from wal mart.it is tube feed.after seting targets up.i went to load gun.but the 22 mags would not fit the cut out in the tube,had to pull rod all the way out and load through the end by droping them in to the tube.after makeing sure it was a 22 mag that is.read barrell.set targets at 50 yards & 75 & 100 yards. useing 1 quart downy bottels as targets. first 3 shoots hit all 3 targets.rounds used were 40 grain j.h.p.the gun shoots very good and see no problems out side of the cut out on the tube .looks as if it is cut for a 22 long rifel round.wonder if all marlin model 983's are like this.or maybe some how they installed the wrong tube?anyway i see no problem out side of that as far as work men ship.very nice rifel as far as weight nice wight ,good looking gun.action-nice pull,and wal nut stock.had to put about 30 coats of gun wax on to the stock to make it what i think looks good.the gun and scope was right out the box.so the targets were not hit deed center.but at the range i shot at i thought was very good as not have set scope.just remebered your quastion so i replyed as to haveing a new wal- mart gun.this will be no problem for me as i will put the tube on the mill and open it up.but why would they put a tube with a cut out that will no acc a 22 mag round.first thing i thought was dam they gave me a long rifel instead of the mag.but it is a mag from the barrel and the chamber.you got me wondering now.let me know what you find out if you research wal- mart guns.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

moss 835 combo from WW. Two of us bought at the same time this set up. Worked just fine out of the box till came time for the 3/12". Loaded fine but after fire, neither of ours would cycle. Jam. Calls were made to Moss about this and words from the company were, if more attention to the small thinkgs like de-burr, we would never have gotten this price for the gun. Such is true, so we took them apart, honed here and there, lots of burrs. With a little TLC now have fine shotguns. Now my cousin bought for more $$ an 835 not in the combo set-up and after looking at the action in his, this work had already been done. But a cost diffenence. We would have taken to doing this during the clean-up sooner or later anyhow....so to me, it was worth the $$ diff.
.....as for the escort out of store with a firearm?..we don't see many old ladys shopping in a gunshop where this isn't the practice...so it just has to be the standard to satisfy everyone with a need or want to shop at the same store....if it keeps people quiet and lets me shop for my wanted items and pass this little ole lady on the way out...is how it has to be now that the Hippies from days gone past and the flower child / draft dodgers have made their way into the ranks of ruining...I mean running our government/courts.Thank God we can still buy them.

[RUMLUVER]

I think there were fewer hippies than there were law abiding citizens so if in fact they made their way to ruining our goverment it is because we let them and didn't vote. Those once hippies and draft dodgers like to convince people just vote your rights away and we(big government) will take care of you BS! I think our government today both sides democrat and republican seem to forget that it is the duty of the goverment to serve the people and our best intrests not themselves and their own best intrests. As far as being led out of any shop or store that you purchased a firearm is also BS it is not that way in ND nor should it be that way anyware and as far as the old ladies I hope they sleep well knowing that there are still citizens with a spine that still purchase and own firearms and are willing to use them in anyway that they may be called apon to do so at any given time! Always remember the Minutemen!

[gmherps]

I've bought quite a few guns from Wally World. I'm going to buy my TC Encore from them when I get the $$.

[analyst]

Walmart does indeed purchase in enormous quantities and they purchase directly so there is no distributor to add costs into the system. Also, manufacturers are very willing to sell Walmart what it specifies (high volumes allow factories to be run at peak efficiency). Walmart probably specifies a lower finish level (finish might be less than a dealer gun), but the safety and strength are the same.

Dealers who have higher per unit overhead costs have to have an advantage and that advantage is going to be in the finish. This allows the dealer to stay in business.