222 Barnes TSX on Deer

[Dom]

Note: In those states legal to use .22 centerfires on deer.

Shooting deer w/a triple deuce is a controversial subject, I know, and I don't want to start controversy. But I would like to know if anyone has tried the 53gr Barnes Triple Shock X in a .222 on deer, and the results. I'm not an advocate of small calibers on larger game, but I'm also not an advocate of putting large holes and unnecessary wasted meat either. I'm impressed with the accuracy I'm getting out of my large bores, and the TSX bullet is getting really good reviews.

I am contemplating this combination -- and yes, all shots will be inside of 100m and broadside. You can never underestimate animals, I've had more than a few run at or close to 100m after taking an '06 180gr through the boiler room. Each shot is different, some run, some don't.

By the way, the Reh deer over here are not anywhere near the size of a whitetail. Now that doesn't mean they can't take a hit and keep on trucking, but I think a well placed TSX in the boiler room should do the job. Bad point I can think of would be most will probably run, and the blood trail may be a little scarce.

Anyway, any comments appreciated, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[Skyline]

Dom.......no I have not tried them. I have thought about it though, just to see how they shoot. While I guess they might work alright on some of the little whitetails that are in parts of the south, I would hesitate to try using them on our big Canadian whitetails that approach the size of a central barren ground caribou bull.

In the right hands, careful shot placement, given the distance parameters you have set..........I have no doubt they will work, and I certainly would not hesitate to use them on a Roe.

Big difference between a Roe deer and a 300+ pound whitetail.
I guess my biggest concern is that I would not want to set those kinds of restrictions on myself when I am out whitetail hunting. If I see a big 5x5 at 250 or 300 yards I do not want to be handicapping myself with that kind of cartridge and bullet choice.

And for the guys going to get into head shots....that is not relevant. Any .222 bullet in the brain will put a deer down.....you wouldn't need a TSX.

[L. Cooper]

I am an advocate of quick, clean, humane killing of game animals, and as such I am opposed to using .22 centerfires on animals as large as deer.

You yourself note the fact that even .30-06 levels of power can have problems under real life hunting circumstances. Why would anyone want to take the risks inherent in using such small calibers? What is the point? What does it prove? Preventing wasted meat?? Come on!!

If you can have genuine questions about whether or not a particular caliber is enough for a particular game animal (and you clearly show that you know the questions exist in this case), you need more gun.

[Skyline]

L. Cooper.................I look at this topic the same as you, but having said that, I believe that Dom is approaching this topic with the Roe deer in mind and they are only slightly larger than a really big coyote.

My concern with this topic is always that it will generate interest in using a .22 centrefire on our deer by newbies to the sport of hunting.

[fabsroman]

I actually debated using my .220 Swift on whitetails with a Barnes XLT bullet (i.e., the X bullet with a lubricating coat on it). However, I decided to stick with the .300 Win Mag. Now, I do know people that use a .22-250 to kill deer and I actually saw a 4 point buck taken with a .22-250. Personally, I like to use a gun that allows me to take any shot that presents itself, whether at 50 yards or 400+ yards. One never knows where that big buck will show himself.

With that said Dom, if you truly limit your shots to 100 meters or less, I think you will be fine with the .222 and any X bullet. Every X bullet I have used on deer has done a great job. They have all exited the animal and they caused massive internal damage. If you look at the energy pattern of an X bullet, they leave a damage trail within the body cavity that looks like a football. The entry and exit wounds are rather small, but the damage on the inside is extreme. All I can say is, try it once and if it works, continue to use it. If you lose an animal and you know you made a good shot, stop using it for that type of animal.

Yes, I believe in the humane taking of game, but where does a person draw the line. What exactly is humane? The most humane thing to do would be to make a head shot that kills the game instantly, but that is a rather tough shot. Is it humane for a deer to be stuck with an arrow so that it will lay down and die over several minutes? Is it humane to shoot a deer in the lungs so that it will suffocate on its own blood and/or bleed to death? What is humane to one person isn't necessarily humane to another. Is a .300 Win Mag enough gun, or would a .416 Rigby be a better choice because it would cause much more shock and much quicker loss of blood? What exactly is under gunned and what exactly is over gunned? Would it be better for somebody to use a .222 and correctly place the shot or a .50 cal and not correctly place the shot? Okay, I'll admit that shot placement is everything. Again, a million what ifs.

[HPBTMTCH]

Have not tryed the barnes bullets, but have taken many deer with the .223, and 62 gr. hp bullets. Last year killed 3, 200 lb does at over 300 yards, so the 222 at 100 should be okay. The only one that did`nt expire quickly was a 100 yard head shot. I watched the impact right in the back of the head, which was turned just slightly. The deer staggered, acted a bit dazed, and ran off. The bullet must have glanced off the skull, and not caused a lethal wound. A search found nothing, and a neighbor mentioned they killed doe that had a head injury, so not even a head shot is a sure thing. That was the first (and hopefully last) unsuccessful shot. All others had been facing.

[Dom]

L. Cooper -- I'm actually on your side, but have a more open view as the years roll by. Why do some countries and states, according to the law, allow use of the hornet on 300lb whitetails? I think that is expecting way too much from a 45 grain pill, yet it is legal. Evidently you haven't hunted places where you hang the field dressed animal YOU shot, weigh it hide, bones, head, hooves and all, and it is sold. If you had a marginal or bad shot, you buy it yourself. If you have a good clean shot w/o wasting a lot of 'meat', it is sold to restaurants, butchers, private citizens, etc. I don't have questions on the power of the 222 in the case for Roe deer, I have questions on using the proper bullet to do the job w/o, yes, you guessed it, wasting a lot of meat.

Fabs & Skyline are right -- I'm considering this combination for Roe deer, which dress out mostly between 30 to 50 pounds. Hardly those big Northern whitetails.

Like I said earlier, a cf 22 on deer is controversial, but not near so much when talking about smaller animals. On the other hand, I know for a fact a few US states that allow the use of any cf 22, and it was this crowd I was questioning on the performance or their experience with it on whitetails. Whether I condone it or not is not the reason of my post.

If the object of my search was to see how small I could go, well, we could be here all day discussing why I'm taking my hornet elephant hunting -- just exagerating before we start another controversy, Waidmannshiel, Dom. ;)

[gd357]

Dom,

I wouldn't hesitate to use that bullet on an animal that size. I've never used it, but with the info available it seems like a very viable option.

FWIW, unless they've changed the laws in the last year or two, it's legal to use any centerfire round for deer in michigan (.17 remmy included):rolleyes:

gd

[L. Cooper]

While it is true that my assumption about what "deer" meant is misleading in this case, I will still argue that there is no real reason to use centerfire .22's on anything larger than coyotes, and there are several valid arguments against their use for larger game

Just because it has been done is not a reason to do it again. The fact that something is legal does not make it ethical. Slavery has been legal at times.

Meat damage can be minimized with shot placement and bullet selection even more than by reducing bullet diameter and weight. If you can argue that perfect bullet placement makes the .22's suitable, then perfect bullet placement with heavier and larger bullets will be just as effective and efficient.

I have hunted for a long time and seen shot, and shot myself, a lot of game from gophers to moose. I am absolutely convinced that there will be (no matter how consciencious the hunter is) times when things don't go quite right. As my Grandfather once told me, "If you ain't never missed, you ain't done much shooting."

While big guns don't guarantee such situations, there is no doubt in my mind that sheer power is helpful at times. A bad shot is a bad shot with any cartridge, but sometimes imperfect shots can be salvaged by the sheer power of the round.

Fabsroman is right: there are a million "what ifs". I am simply arguing that you can cut them down to only 990,000 "ifs" if you use enough gun.

I think one of the 6mm rounds would be much better for the hunting Dom is planning.

See, Dom, you did start something didn't you. ;)

[Skyline]

Dom............I agree with you. Period.

Unfortunately there are more guys out there using .22 centrefires to hunt deer than I eveer would have thought.......you will note that most are in the southern US. It has been a rare occasion when I have seen this up where we live.

You have more energy than me. I have argued yoyr point so many times over the years that quite frankly I am getting to the point where I can't be bothered any more. I see this debate over and over again on forums. You know as well as I do that most shooters are very firm in their 'opinions' on this sort of thing and nothing you or I can say will sway them.

Have at it though. You can just put..... Dom & Kelly at the end if you want.;)

["yote"]

.22 cal ?? Not in my book. No way No how!!!. I even consider
243 (6 mm) too light for deer sized game. (Remember Murphy's
Law ???) .