As far as factory loading, the .277 is loaded in a wider range of bullet types and what not. Same thing with the .257 as the .284

.277 beats them all hands down. That is, when you compare them with equal case sizes.

Hey...model 70;

....are you sayin' that since you like beans...I don't need to plant 'taters?

Good one ears...

And Rocky, that 25/308 sounds interesting but an awful lot like an old favorite, 250/3000. Probably getting a bit more velocity huh? Tell me more........

Guys, this thread was started "Tongue in cheek" simply as a play on a previous thread. There is "NO" perfect deer rifle. It is too personal of a choice between folks. They are all perfectly capable of doing what is necessary. The perfect rifle? Mine or yours or his or hers. Whichever YOU have the most confidence in.

If you want to debate something, debate the value of bullet construction. Do you want it to use ALL of the energy available and stay within the target (No exit hole) or something to blow on through not knowing how much of its energy was used but having an exit hole? Afterall, it is the BULLET that kills, not the caliber. JMHO

Take care and NO FIGHTING :D

GB, the 25-308 isn't my personal creation, but it's a very overlooked wildcat.

In case capacity (and even shape), the 308 just about exactly matches the vaunted 250 Savage Ackley Improved. Old Parker Otto thought that was one of his best creations - but the 308 wasn't around then. I bet if it had been, he'd have just necked it down and the 250 AI wouldn't have happened.

I reasoned that necking down is a whole passel easier than blowing out a case, and if the outcome is identical, why mess with it?

Read my whole article on it (the link to my page is below). It's nice. Even Evan likes it!

I was waiting for Model 70 to chime in. He always makes a "No Perfect Deer Cartridge" thread interesting.

I agree completely with Gatorbum, in that bullet construction/ability is the big thing that matters.

Rocky,

I went to your site and low and behold I was stunned. You had the most elaborate testing of the old 256mag. I have ever seen!

I was delighted to say the least. I have been shooting the 256 in a Marlin 62 for over 35 years! The last factory ammo a buddy found for me was a gun show and cost me $75. I have tried a few of the commercially available custom loads with little success. I have loading dies and have loaded some myself however case head seperation was an issue. Seems you have to match the fired case to the specific gun (I had 2 rifles) and then neck size only. Creating cases out of nickled 357 brass made a very wicked looking load with some old Hornady 60 gr. spirepoints! Making the cases was a nightmare however. By annealing them in a cast iron frying pan on the stove and then quickly putting them through the full length die, I achieved reasonable sucess without crumpling them all.

I have quit loading my own but would give anything to find some great hunting load for my rifle. It is not overly accurate with the factory loads (Maybe11/2-2") but devastating on game. I have killed lots of deer with it and it does a fine job at close to moderate range. Kids have killed their first deer with it many times at 50-100 yards. I love it and would most likely never actually get rid of it but would surely like to know if Icould get better accuracy out of a great expanding hunting load.

Are you interested in playing with it?

Take care

Tony

Gator,
I know it was tongue in cheek, but like Fabs, I was just waiting for mod 70 to show up. He just cant stand it. :D

There are alot of perfect deer rifles. You are correct on that. Many will get the same desired results with different combinations as well. (Even though the 270 is out performed on both the lower and upper ends of the bullet range by other rifles. :D ) Sorry, couldnt resist......

Your gonna fit in great here. Glad to have you aboard.

Andy

Well now fellar's, if your gonna be talking "wildcats" lets talk about a real wildcat that will make the so called .270 shooters take 2 steps backwards in amazement Okey Dokey.

How about a .25/300WSM! Now that ought to make the skeptics take a real hard look at reality I suppose. It sure does turn a head or two around these parts. Place a 120 grain Nosler Partition or Sierra Boatail bullet in the chamber and it will certainly straighten out any notion about rainbow trajectories I mean to tell yall. The last reading I took off my chrony was around 3450fps give or take a foot or two. Now how's that fer a bean field shooter?;) ;)

Holy mother of God!

I want one.........

I bet that thing erodes barrels a bit but if you only really hunted with it you could use it a long time. How's accuracy? All the 25's I've ever dealt with or heard about have been exceptional shooters. Is this one that easy to find a pet load for?

Take care

Tony

Reading a little Elmer Keith last night, there was a picture of his wife with a Mule Deer she took with a .333 OKH (about the same numbers as today's .340 Weatherby). He said it was a fine deer rifle.

I've been carefully looking at the bullet performance chart that was posted on another thread. Very revealing. There is a lot to the statement that bullet construction is possibly as important as caliber.

My present theory is that anything from .25" diameter to .323" diameter, at least 100 grains for the smaller bores, more for the larger ones, and good bullet construction is going to produce a dead deer with decent shot placement. Everything beyond that is just personal preference.

I'm even back to flirting with the idea that a 243, with a 100 grain Grand Slam, at 3,000 fps is adequate for pronghorn (125 pounds). Some of you may remember that I was gravitating toward the other side of that issue.

Naw, if you like "taters", eat them. If you're hungry and need something cheap and convenient, it's the beans that you want.

many cartridges out perform the .270win

the 7mm rem mag, .300win mag and other calibers out perform the .270 but why do you need all that recoil and muzzle blast to shoot a deer further than what MOST hunters can see? I'm simpley stating the .270 is the best all around round.

:D

Model 70.......I'll only tell you to listen up and read this cause the 25-06 can do anything the .270 can do and the recoil is lighter yet by some 40% if your worried about loosing the fillings in your teeth OK.

I reckon you could even go down a notch, to the .243 that so many seem to think is for killing rats and varmints only. It too has enough energy to kill whitetail deer at 300 yards using a premium bullet. My brother in law years ago kill more elk (under 150 yards) than any 3 average elk hunters in their lifetime using the very caliber. Just put that little bullet in the kill zone and the animal will be yours, with proper bullet weight and construction.

Hi Ball, I hope you don't mind but I will add to that quote just a bit.

"For the velocity at which it is fired".

CALIBER means NOTHING compared to bullet construction/performance.

Here's my 270 story. When I was young, I bought an old Rem. 760 in 270. Steel butt plate and ribbing on the forearm similar to a Mod. 12 winchester. Great gun but it would slam the crap out of you. Too much drop in the stock which made it kick too much. That gun nearly ruined me. I developed a flinch bad enough I could not even shoot my 22 accurately anymore. I finally managed to get over it but it took a lot of time and effort. Now this was more the fault of the GUN and not the caliber. It killed very well.

Now my 243 story. I traded that 270 for a Win. Model 88 in 243. God I loved that rifle. No recoil to speak of and incredibly accurate. (Later as I began to reload, that Mod.88 would shoot as well as ANY bolt gun!) The only problem was that the caliber would not kill reliably with factory ammo. Make perfect shots and the deer would run off like they weren't even hurt. Bullet performance was absolutely terrible and thus gave the 243 a bad reputation as a wounder. (An example: I shot a 200 pound hog behind the shoulder with a Rem. 80 gr. bullet. He ran so I shot him again going away. Hit him in the right ham and upon dressing him I found the bullet in the v formed were the bottom jaw comes together at his nose. This is supposed to be a varmint bullet yet it shot LENGTHWAYS through a big hog with very little damage. When I got to the hog I finished him off with a 22 mag. behind the ear. I was NOT happy with my 243) I turned to reloading premium bullets (Pet load was an 85gr. Sierra HP) and this gun would kill like lightning. Load that 243 with Partition bullets or one of the other premium bullets and you have as good as it gets for DEER to 300+ yards. By the way, just to tell you how terrible the factory rounds really were, I shot anti-freeze jugs full of water at 350 yards and thought I was missing. Reality was that those bullets, 80gr. and 100gr. from Rem. and Win., were simpply poking holes and draining the water without any shock effect at all! Shot those same jugs with that 85 grainer or my partition load and it exploded, even at that extreme range. THE BULLET IS BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT COMPONENT OF EVERY CALIBER. IMHO

Take care

Tony