mod70

the 257 cals do have an advantage over the .277s, id say the recoil being less is big advantage, atleast for us wussy guys like me.

i talk the 257s up real big, because i like them alot. but when you get down to the nitty gritty id tell you how ive only taken game with my 270win in 8 years if hunting, thats about 7 bucks and 1 bull elk. all were dropped with the little 270. i cant break away from the 277 cals and thats where my infatuation with the 270wsm came from.

hi ball

from an earlier post i gatherd that your working with the 25wsm.

id like to hear alittle more on it. what rifle the barrel who did your smith work, how 100gr pills perform, or even 76-85 if youve tired them.

i have the 270wsm and would like to get tube reamed 25wsm, with its parrent case being the 270wsm, this would make reloading easier on me. id have the throat cut so that i can simply kneck down the bullets and stuff them in the chamber and have fun, im not much for relaoding and id hate to have to trimm cases after bumping 270wsm cases through the 25wsm die,

why did you go with the 25300wsm.

the rifle id like to build the 25wsm on is the #1 standerd, im sure some day i may try abd realy want to but for rigth now the 2506 is keepin me happy enough.

id love to hear more on the rifle.

Evan

Evans-03.......Actually I was wanting a for long range shooting rifle for hunting. My 300 Ultra mag was causing me a neck problem shooting it from the bench (even with sandbags and recoil pad) when my itch started up again for something that wouldn't be a bore around the campfire, let me cut that recoil in half and still have lots of sip to penetrate big game animals like elk or mule deer at 400 yards.

I had read years ago of how the Swedes used the 6.5 x 55 for their harvesting of moose and deer. I just upped the anti with a little help from a case that holds a lot more powder. My accuracy at 800 yards with this rifle, shooting 140 grain Sierra bullets has been very good, considering I was shooting with an arm that had been just operated on for nerve damage. I can keep 5 shots within a 11 inch area at 800 yards!

I might could shrink that to 9 ir naybe 8 with more practice I suppose. I won't be shooting passed that 400 yard marker these days anyway most likely. If the gun were heavier (heaven forbid) It would do much better I am positive. If my eyes and are were perfect, I am sure the results would be trim a little more. However, so much is life during it's span understand. I also did not want a 12 pound bench gun for hunting. I have one of those in a 6mm Remington and it is no fun to carry all day. Both those wildcats have custom stainless fluted barrels. The 1/4 bore is 25 inches and the 6.5 is 26 inches in length. They both have custom made stocks as well, with Leupold 4 x 12 on the 1/4 bore and a Leupold 3 x 9 on the 6.5/270WSM.

I went on a somewhat quick elk hunt last year and took my 25-06 along for the ride. I did managed to kill a bull elk with the rifle, a model 70 pre-64. However, I long for something better suited as a big game hunting caliber in my hands next time out. My brother in law used to tell me years ago, you just don't need all that "smackin power" to kill elk and mule deer. He used a .243 Winchester in his day by the way!

I was actually after a 270WSM but never could get my hands on the rifle (model 70 of course) so I took the 300WSM instead that was on hand at the gun store. Now with this new acquisition, I proceeded to build a wildcat in short, the 25-06. I thought this would work out as my rifle, using 120 grain bullets. However, it just doesn't do what the other wildcat (6.5/270WSM) will as far as penetration goes into 50lb clay blocks. Nor does it have it's long range ballistic abilities and energy down range on big game animals like elk or moose.

The 6.5/270WSM is much better suited for big critters, using the 140 grain bullet with a SD or .287 and especially with a 160 grain bullet with it's SD of .328 (great for moose or elk in the dark timber) that is available today from Hornady. Shooting long range is also going to put it at the top of the list between the 2 wildcats.

I myself would never hunt elk again with the 25-06........It is just NOT big enough in my humble opinion and hunters must give up those shots passed 200 yards for sure. Now even though the wildcat 25/300WSM has more sip, I would also have to say, it is NO elk cartridge simple put. One should also use a premium bullet as well, so as to stay together after contact of animal tissue.

I reckon shooting those Barnes copper bullets in the 100 grain (if your barrel likes em) would be the ticket to all your antelope and mule deer needs out west. I myself still favor a bullet like the Nosler Partition in the 120 grain for penetration sake. It does the best of both worlds. SD at .260

However if you really want a wildcat to shoot long range and hunt big game, look no further than a 6.5/270WSM or use the 300WSM case as well, to get the job done in spades!

Add me to the 25.06 fan group. I don't think there are many deer I shot with one who would argue. On second thought they can't argue there dead.:D

yup, the .280 is available in heavier bullet weights than the .270 but why would you need anything over 150gr. or deer hunting?

ffrom what ive found the 270win doesnt fling the 150s as well as it does the 130s and 140s. though ive still takn deer with the 150 noser partitions,

they all work its a crap shoot,


so whats acurate is very acurate and whats not as acurate is still acurate it enough to get the job done

Evan

You dont need anything heavier than a 150 gr bullet. But, if your gonna use something that heavy, there are a host that will out perform the 270. If you wanna go smaller the 280 will out perform there.

For the umteenth time, there are many "perfect deer cartridges". None will kill any deader than the others. Some will out perform with different bullets.

Your 270 is a good rifle, but its not any better and in some cases not as good as other rifles. All have their strengths and all have their downfalls.

Andy

exactly and no other cartridge has the advantage over the .270win

My gawd you can twist facts.....
:D

Here we go again.

There are plenty of cartridges that have an advantage over the .270 in one aspect or another. Heck, I am sure there is a .270 short magnum or something out there with a shorter action that the .270 Win. I am sure there are flatter shooting cartridges out there. I am sure there are cartridges out there with less recoil. Every cartridge has its advantages and disadvantages when compared to another cartridge, that is just how it goes. Almost like comparing cars and asking which one is the best one for the commute to work. At the end of the day, a lot is going to depend on your driving style and your personality. One brother of mine drives a PT Cruiser and an F-150, the other drives a Lexus GS400 and a GMC Yukon Denali. They own a house together, they both live in it, and they both work at the same place. So, which one made the better choice in his vehicle selections? I could keep going on and on about what I drive, what my sisters drive, where we work, our driving styles, etc., but I think you guys, Model 70 specifically, will get the point.

Well,Fabs, just what do you drive?

this thread right here is what this site is all about, opions.

model70 loves the 270, it does everything hell ever need to do.

I love the 270, it can do and has done everything that ill ever need to do, short of big game. deer and elk arent big game. i have my 300win handy when i start to trip into that big game territory. ive got the 270wsm because i just had to have it, it looks cool and can out perform the 270win by just alittle all the way across the board with all bullet weights. 150s in the wsm case might be the way to go.

the 2506. the caliber has clung to me like glue on hot rubber and that will never change. in my opion the 257 calibers make some of the best deer only calibers out there. mix larger game in there and theyl work there to but there are others like the 270win 270wsm 280 7mm 3006 300win and on and on that will outperfrom the 25 cent bullets on larger game..

same holds true to the 277 calibers, there are calibers smaller and larger that have an advantage over them. maybe your plinkn away at rock chucks tipped 20 or so over but you havent seen a single hit due to the recoil. you migh then be thinking the 257 and smaller calibers would be kinda fun for varmiting, these have the advantage over the 277s in this department.

you might be hunter that hunts coyotes and rock chucks on acasion in the big game off season. then prong horn sets of the big game season. and rolls into deer season where your hunting muleys in idahos high country where shots can range from 20-600yds of your capable of shooting that far. the 270win can handle the longer shots. you also maybe hunt spring bear. the 277 is pretty well perfect here to. elk then come into the picture at the end of the big game season. the 277s are also very capable here to. and your shooting mainly this one rifle you know it very well and have found it strenghts and weaknesses. you know what you can and cant do with it. so to me the 277 is bout perfect for most every all around hunter in idaho.

but theres exseptions to the rull. what if you tend to hunt elk more than you do deer, maybe moose to. your planning that alaska hunt. i know someday ill more then likly end up packn a few rifles to alaska. i also know that id be hunting more than one type of game. and im pretty positive id take atleast two rifles. probly one of my 277 calibers and whatever 30cal i have at the time. i wouldnt ever go to alaska under gunned or even have any question about being under gunned. thats why the 2 calibers would come with me.

sp pretty much the 277s rull the roost right up untill you realize or need something that might be alittle better and have an edge over the smaller bullet. it doesnt mean the 270 is capable it just means there something atleast alittle better suited to the job.

Evan

very well put. i mean, after all, we're dicussing the best DEER hunting round here.

100gr bullet. 3400 fps no recoil very acurate, good glass. close or long range. this is my opion of the perfect deer only rifle.

Hey, Evan just described a 25-06!

:) :D :cool: ;)

make it a 130gr. bullet at around 3k and you're on the right track.

Hawkeye,

I drive a 1998 Ford Taurus, a 2003 Ford F-350 Super Crew with the Powerstroke diesel, and a 1989 Ford Mustang. My brothers also have 1989 Mustangs, but they just bought theirs and they need a lot of work. I bought my Mustang brand new when I was 17 and I hardly drive it anymore.

Nah, Evan is right. That 130 gr bullet at a pedestrian speed like that, hell, that aint good for nothin, now that its all laid out technical like. 3000 fps was pretty fast 25 years ago. With todays technology and inventions, its outlived its time....


:D

Andy

.177
 

.177 cal pellet gun.......795 fps. must be an eye shot.

come on now boys, go shoot your deer and put this one to rest.!!
:D :D :D :D

we all know what works, and what works best.
our own.

Fabs, maybe I could introduce you all to the GM line of 4x4's... ;) :D

so faster is ALWAYS better with ANY weight bullet, no matter how heavily or lightly constructed it is? Hmmm...interesting...

Model 70.........The velocity issue with bullets going super super sonic speeds has been addressed several times by the professional hunters around the world.

The conclusion when hunting DG game was that bullets going 2400fps penetrated and stayed together far better than those that were shot faster or slower. Just food for thought gentlemen!;)

Now if yall want to talk pullin trucks, thats fine and Dandy with this Ole Boy, ya hear. Cause I got a retired 78 Chevy in the back with a bored out 460 Ford sittin in the cradle that can flat out be classified as a stump puller or pullin truck on the circuit by golly.
I figure she churns out right near 850 hp's give or take a nickel's worth. Trucks name was "BAD ATTITUDE" my buddy's was called "WILD THING":D :D :D :cool:

Thank you for the info. I was being sarcastic though.

you could hand me a rifle from 223-300win and id find a way to take deer with it.

some calibers may limit my shots to being at close range, id have to let some go. otheres i would have more opurtunitys at game when its at funny angles and further away.

calibers in the mid to upper end give the best results. arent realy to over kill and produce very good results.

so flip a quarter be marked at birth whatever the cause may be, find something that works with you and for and get to know the rifle make it a part of you. no matter what that caliber ends up being itl in the end wind up being the perfect rig for you. regardless of bullet size and speed.

the 270win clung to m at birth, literlay i didnt have any choice. dad got the rifle the year i was born. i received the rifle brand new in the box some 10 years later. it has been with me ever since and were inseperable.,

Speed kills. More shock and terminal damage.

you ever watch that movie, "Three Kings" i think thats what its called. it shows the internals of a human bodas bullet penetrates it.

it shows the terminal shock very well. as the bullet impacts and penetrates it litleraly turns the blood flow in veins backwords. and sends blood through tissue. kinda like atom bomb were you see the shock waves leaving the bomb in all directions, youd just have to see it know what im talking about.

Ive seen it.

Unless your shootin somethin big that chargin ya, I would rather have the speed any day over lumbering penetration. Especailly on deer size game and varmints.

If you subscribed to the 2400fps thing, I guess the 30-30 Win would be the ultimate deer rifle.

Yipppeeee, go 30-30. :D

Andy

I'll bet that F-350 makes a big impression pullin up to the Courthouse, don't it!

fabs an 89 stang eh.

ive got an 83 stang, 89 chevy truck. and thats about it.

lets hear alitle more on the stang.

Evan,

There isn't much to post about the stang. I've changed every single piece of the suspension. It has Koni struts and shocks, Moroso sway bars, camber/caster plates, SVT lowering springs with an increased poundage on them, polyurethane bushings everywhere except the rear upper control arms which have aluminum bushings, new A-arms, and rear lower and upper control arms, Steeda 8x17 inch rims with Yokohama 225/40's up front and Bridgestone Potenza RE71's on the rear in 255/40's, and it has a little exhaust work and air intake work done to it. I haven't taken it to the track yet in the 15+ years that I have owned it. Oh yeah, it has a smidge over 33,000 miles on it.

I posted the pic before I read everybody else's replies. I cannot believe how this thread has taken off over today.

Skinny,

I think I will pass on the GM 4x4's. A Ford has lasted both my dad and my brother and they are both horrible on cars and trucks.

Hawkeye,

I did take the section 179 deduction on the truck in 2003 and have used it to meet with several of my clients, but I have yet to take it to the courthouse. I don't even think it would fit under the parking garage. At the beginning of the year, I met with a new client that owns a drywall company and he was surprised to see me pulling up in the F-350, not because he didn't think I should have it, but because it was just like his. He kind of knows my background (i.e., dad and uncle in construction), so he wasn't surprised by it.

Here is a pic of the stang:

Lets keep this one goin.....

Ill bet we can outdo the "Manbeef" thread.....
:D

I see your point when it comes to speed but does it really hold true? I mean, what would happen if you were to push a 100gr nosler ballistic tip at around 3500 fps and hit bone? Now wouldn't a 130 or 140gr bullet at around 3000 fps be a more versatile choice?

I did just that exact thing on a deer two years ago with that bullet at approx that speed, maybe a tad faster, at 200 yards.

Broke the shoulder, of course, demolished the lungs, heart and some other internal organs, and broke the shoulder on the other side.

130gr bullet travelling slower may have held together better, but I dont think that deer would have been any deader. Could be wrong?? :confused: :D

Andy

i was gona send fabs personnel message but ill keep it here.

im into the stangs to,



fabs

my 83 is in building stage right now. as wee speak ive got quater windows, windsheild. steeday lower control arms (adjustable) areo nose??????? but lookin for 85-86 nose. these are just parts i have that are waiting to go on.

what i still need are rear shocks, probly go QA1, along with theyr coilovers in the front. 150lb springs to go with the future mods. tremec tranny(keep dreamn) hood cant decide on the hood, partly due to not decideing on the front end..

it had centerline wheels on it dont even know the size or anything but id like cobras or like yours, but in 17x7(8) in the front and 17x10(9) in the rear i want atleast some sidewall.

so far i rebuilt the 4 speed tranny and put a stock clutch in it. and freshn up the brakes.

the car is a t-top wich sets it off from other fox stangs, its kinda become my fun car specialy with summer here.

im planning for heads intake and cam.:D :D :D :D

what does yours have for motor mods

Evan

thats actualy my deer load and varmit load to boot.

100gr nsler balistic tipp. cant remember how fast exackly but 3500fps sounds just about right.

i also loaded 100gr nolser partitions but they didnt shoot near as well so i gave up on them and went with what was the most acurate.

i used to load 85gr nolser bts and 75gr vmaxes but i kinda quit because the 100grs shoot very well so i figured why not use them for everything.

ive taken a few coyotes and badgers with the 100gr nosler bt and like the results. bullet didnt blow them apart at close or long range. so i slowly became confident with the load as my deer and varmit load.

i still will load some 75gr vmaxes to get the cool redmist effect from smaller critters, i used up all my 85 bts and wont be getting anymore, though this bullet coul also be made into screamer pushn the 3700fps mark. it had the same effect on varmits.

actualy i might change my mind and work with the 85gr bullet some more to see what i can cook up in fast acurate load if possible. might be my new antelop load you just talked me into


hmmmmm but whatif my 270wsm can push the 130gr nosler balistic tipp close to 3500, right now im loading the 140gr nosler bt to to a moderate 3100. hmmmmm did i decide on the nolser balistic tipp as my deer load, when did that happen.

acuracy draws me to the bullet more than bullet desing does. i doubt ill load 130sww in it when its already pushn 140s plenty fast, and could go faster. but right now were sitn good where were at, drivin the 140 to 3100 acuratly, and that didnt come realy easy, i tried more than a few difrent powder charges to find the acurate load.

i have pretty much came to nosler balistic tipps as my deer load. shot a coyote with the 140gr bt at bout 300yds with the 270wsm and bullet didnt exit. ive taken alot of varmits with nosler bts and havent seen them get very devestateiing. i even took a few rock chucks with the 140gr plastic tipped slug with little mess.

ive shot yotes with 55gr vmaxes out of the 220swift that left a football sized hole at that range on acasion, the same bullet at distance sometimes wouldnt exit

all my calibers 277 and smaller will shoot balsitic tipps because ive found that they are just acurate and are produceing results i like to see. the 22s shoot vmaxes and the 25 and 270s shoot nolser.

the 300win will get alittle difrent treatment and be fed dieat of tough bullets. im gona start my schooling in the 300win caliber with 168gr barnes tripple shocks. if i find a load fairly quick i might settle righ there?

but ill also try the same bullet thats weighs more, 180 or 200grs.



if im not happy with tripple shocks ill go to partitions.

after my heavy critter getter loads are good to go ill try some 165gr nolser bts, just because i can and might try the load on some varmits.

those are the plans as of now

Evan

fair enough but which of the two choices i posted would be more of a RELIABLE deer hutning round?

ANDY L..........Well, I reckon you took the words right out of my mouth sir! Yep, that old lever gun I would be willing to bet my truck, has taken more deer in the USA & Canada than any caliber that is or was in existence today. Ummmmm sure makes a fellow wonder why all the need for big mags and tons or smack down energy ya think.:)

Now on the other side of the spectrum is the little caliber called the .243 Winchester, that many seem to believe is NOT a very good thing to have in hand for harvesting whitetail deer. Most that say that, I would give 6 to 1 odds ain't never hunted with one for deer or shot a deer. Tarnations, I got a brother in law who used to kill elk with one, along with mule deer don't cha know. ;)

Truth to the matter is this Andy L, darn near any caliber today from the .243 Winny on up the scale is a good deer gun. It never has been the calibers fault of not bringing the venison home to the freezer. Hunters who can't shoot or don't know squat for bullet selection is my theory of their demise in the woods.

NO my wood haulin truck ain't fer sale either!

HI Ball,
Your on the money. There are many perfect deer rifles out there. I have killed several with a 243. My 10 year old has killed 4 with 4 shots and you cant convince him its not perfect. :)

Ive killed several with a 30-30 too. That was my first gun and killed my first two deer on the same morning with it, when I was 11. You couldnt have convinced me then that the 30-30 wasnt the berries for deer.

Im just messin around on this thread. Some people get so worked up about certain things, its all in good fun. :cool:

Good to check in for a chuckle a time or two a day.

Andy

The 220 Swift is just a barrel burner and not as good as the 22-250...

Andy, is that good enough? ;)