What kills me is that we already have a federal law in effect that levies a maximum fine of $25,000 per illegal. If that were enforced, I don't think we would have any problems with employers giving illegals jobs. If the chicken factory with 300+ illegals were fined accordingly, that would have been $7.5 million. If that didn't drive them out of business, it would make them think twice about hiring another illegal. The feds should really take some heat for that one, which they did in the media. There wasn't a problem with shipping the illegals back in that case, just a problem with fining the employer. As far as I am concerned, the problem lies with the employers.

I have to agree
 

If the companies were fined for this hiring practice...it would help tremendously. BUT there is another problem. Where would the company get people to work?? We need to cut the payment of welfare to people who are ABLE to work but choose not to. They will NOT starve. Guess what?? They will actually find a job. If we need to address this problem in a way that we would have to call it work fare..OK. Welfare for those who are NOT able to work...Not one penny for the rest. One child on welfare..Have a second and you lose the money for the first...and lose them both to adoption....or have the ladies tubes tied after the first. Harsh , you say?? How many children did you have? How many can you support. Well if you had the normal average...you are supporting every other one that is born...even if they are not yours. Is that right. Yep..it is harsh but it does make sense. We cannot afford to pay for all the welfare kids and the illegal kids and our own too. It just goes against all common sense. But wait till Obama is president...he'll find a way to pay for all this...but it will be more coming out of YOUR pockets. That is his brand of change... More taxes to pay for the ones who choose not to work. Now I am going to bed. Got to get over my rant!:D

You will never be able to have a mother's tubes tied and you will almost never be able to take kids away from a mother/father unless they are really unfit parents. The first is unconstitutional and rather harsh because that mother might eventually get her stuff together and want more kids. The second just doesn't happen very easily.

With that said, I am all for getting rid of Welfare, Section 8 housing, and a bunch of other programs for all those other than the ones that CANNOT work. However, getting rid of those programs will end up hurting the children, but if you get rid of those programs, maybe it will be easier to show that the parents are unfit to raise their children, and the children can be put up for adoption to better adoptive parents that will show the children how to work for a living and save for the things they want.

Welfare and government handouts are a big mess. Kind of like the government bailing out everybody that is going through foreclosure. People need to learn the hard way. 100 years ago, if you had a bunch of kids and didn't take care of them, they died. Plain and simple. People weren't having kids for increased welfare benefits, but truly understood the responsibility of having a child.

I know that those thiings really
 

Can't be done...at least not in the societal atmosphere we have today. I also know that those things were done in the past. In Maryland no less. I saw more than one kid taken from their parents. Know why it was done?? Because they needed to be taken. Not because the kids were beaten or any thing like that. Nope. They were taken because they couldn't provide the basics for their own kids. This happened right on the eastern shore in the late 50's early 60's. I saw it. I also knew of a few women whose tubes were tied...not by the gummit...but by a caring doctor(he did this clear into the mid 70's). This was of course before the welfare state got going like it is now. There wasn't a whole lot of work available in the late 50's through the 60's on the eastern shore. June July and August the black and white folk who needed to work were waiting on the corner in the little town where I lived..waiting for the farmers who had straw or hay cut and baled. Provided a little money to someone who wanted to work or ones who needed the money. By the mid to late 60's I was almost alone on that corner. Welfare changed people that quickly. There was a lot of seasonal work in those times. The Eastern shore was an agricultural area ya know? My father even provided work for a person or two(plus unpaid me). He was a waterman. And when I was in school he needed help. The world was a different place then...where the people did not and could not depend on the government to do for them. Time to go back to those ideals..Past time in fact! Just as a note...many families that had a lot of children...especially farm folk had them to do the work necessay on a farm. They raised their own food...and took care of their own. It was a hard life...but usually a pretty good one too.

Emergency Alert
 

Skeet, "Where would we get the people that want to work"?
There are all kinds of workers from countries all over the world who are waiting in line just to get here to work. They are coming under work visas and being very legal, going back after the visa and permits run out. The reason why they comply is so that they can come back again. Some want to stay here and others just want to come here to work and then go back to their native country. I don't have a problem with either type because they are following the law.
Most of the imported labor around here used to be illegals from south of the border. Now we are getting groups on work permits from Europe and the Far East. Even had a group from South Africa. Mostly students who work in motels and resturants. Usually very pleasant and trying to learn our version of english.

I agree Larry
 

It is refreshing to have people come here to work. Have seen some from Russia and former russian states here. They all wanted to work and learn the language. But that really isn't the problem. We have to get the ones that are "citizens" that don't want to work back into the loop. Work fare...but make those people productive.. And if they choose not to produce..take away their right to vote and extend the bureaucracy. I don't want anyone to lose their rights. I just want them to be responsible for themselves. Choosing NOT to work and making us responsible for them isn't the answer to anything...other than perpetuating that way of life. This isn't a black or white issue either... More than half the people on welfare are other than black ya know. If they aren't able to work...fine. I don't mind my taxes going to help them. But if able and choosing not to..NO I do not want my tax money going to them. Illegals and people with green cards should NOT be able to get any types of welfare or family aid moneys either. They should have to be real citizens. Not just the run across the border to be born kind. They aren't real citizens and just help to bankrupt the systems. I also want to reduce the amount of foreign aid that leaves this country. In some instances we get value for some of it..but in too many cases we only get more grief from those countries. If I hear Yankee go home...well hell..I'll go home and take my money with me. Doesn't make sense?? Harsh again?? I really think it does make sense and don't think it is harsh. I know it sounds simplistic et al but sometimes simple is the way things should be done. Why make everything so much harder. Good grief..If anyone ran for pres on these terms they would be shot out of hand...especially by the democraps...who are nothing other than socialists.

Emergency Alert
 

skeet, We are on the same wave length. I remember how tough it was when I was first starting out and would go grocery shopping for my wife. I saw people buying better food than I could afford (steaks, etc) and paying with stamps. They were dressed better than I, droved a much newer car than I, and stopped by the liquor store with the change from their grocery purchase. I was pi--ed off, swore I would never stoop that low, and never had to. But I wasn't scared to work. The idea that the folks back in DC want to give all of these types their "rights and entitlements" makes me want to vote every sob out of office. I think we have two entitlements; to be born and to die. Everything in between takes a little blood, sweat, and tears.

Re: I agree Larry
 

Exactly Skeet. Take a look around at all the able-bodied citizens in their late teens and twenties who are idle (and getting into mischief) at all hours of the day and night. The concept of a "labor shortage crisis" that would erupt if we made it impossible to hire illegal aliens is a myth.

BUT A2M
 

We have to make those who do not want to work..go work. I was going to say back to work...but waaayyy too many never have worked. Too easy to collect welfare and food stamps. And as far as food stamps. Originally it was ONLY for the basics..now they can buy almost anything with them. Don't want the kids to suffer...but originally welfare was only till you could go BACK to work if possible. Ain't that way any more The only way I can see them being coerced to work is make 'em hungry. That really doesn't seem right but I cannot see any other way....well I can but those other ideas may seem a bit harsh. Oh and one other thing..Make fathers responsible for their children. We can find out who the fathers are...we already know the mothers. These are common sense ideas. Not harsh...just smart:confused:

I read something pretty interesting the other day. The largest entitlement program is social security, followed closely by Medicare. Welfare is much lower in the tax dollar amount spent each year.

That may be true Fabs
 

But don't forget..Social Security recipients had to have paid into the system(or someone did) as well as Medicare. Welfare is totally different

Welfare isn't completely different unless the person has never worked a day in their life. If they have worked and paid taxes, they have paid into welfare, plain and simple. There just isn't the equivalent of a social security or medicare line on their pay check for welfare.

Now, if somebody hasn't worked a day in their life, then they are living off of you and I.

Another issue I have is with how poorly the federal government runs both social security and medicare. It is utterly nuts. I would rather keep my social security contribution and invest it myself, rather then let them handle it for me. What they started a long time ago that was something good, has turned into a disaster.

does anyone remember the movie "red dawn" starring patrick swayze? the commies invaded the u.s. via airborne and a ground borne invasion up from mexico.

sorry...that'll never happen.

IF anything of that nature were to occur, it would be from covert infiltration by way of mexico & canada and then assemlbing an army/force somewhere within CONUS. not a very likley scenerio.

we'll fall from within...we'll crumble from our own big time mistakes. we're in the process of it now. history is repetative. that's been proven time and time again. rome is the classic example but there are many, many more if a person cares to look into history.

for example, look at the lack of response from congress to actually seal the borders...the lack of action from congress to open our own energy sources to name two examples.

i watched nancy pelosi/congress yesterday on c-span and i am truly astonished at how much of a time lag there is for reaction involving ANY issue; just about the time the bear is getting ready to eat us, they say they'd better do something...

Agreed.