Hunt Chat - Stopping Power

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- - Stopping Power (http://www.huntchat.com/showthread.php?t=50090)

Last night on the History Channel's Modern Marvels, they had a great show on called "Magnums". It started with the 38 Special being the standard for law enforcement officers. Then S&W developed the 357 Magnum and it changed everything. S&W couldn't keep up with all the orders. However, not all police departments stayed with the 357. After awhile many went back to the 38 Special because of the noise & recoil of the 357.

Later, S&W developed the 44 Magnum. They said many purchased the 44, but some never actually shot it because they were afraid of it's power.

The military had the same dilemma. More people can shoot a 9mm accurately, but it really doesn't have the power for a one shot kill. The .45 acp has the power but too many people that have to use a pistol cannot shoot the .45 because of recoil. I maintain that the people that can't shoot a .45 have never had adequate instruction and practice with the pistol. They may also be so recoil conscious that they will never be able to shoot a pistol of power (recoil).

I have found that most people who cannot shoot a 45 are afraid of the gun. My wife is not afraid of guns. Shoots her Old Model SuperBlackhawk just fine in fact.. but there is a caveat for her..she must use hearing protection when playing with that puppy. She has no problem with the little chief's Special or the single action 45s noise and fear cause most bad shooting from novices and ocassional shooters..In my opinion. Surprisingly she does not like semi autos either..shoots my 45 ok..just doesn't really like it. Also in my opinion a semi auto is not a good handgun to start a novice on..unless you only load one round at a time. Revolvers are the handgun of choice for me to instruct with...with shotguns..semi auto 20 or 28 ga

Trapper7,

You made several points that caused me to have reflective thinking. In 1970, I was hired by a police department that allowed "Any Carry" of any handgun an officer could qualify with that was 9mm or larger. As "Badge 231" I went to the gun shop and paid $105.00 for a new S&W M28 4-inch .357 Magnum. Back at the station, I was told I could ONLY use Round Nose 158 grain .38 Specials in my M28!

Fortunately, six weeks later I was called to go to the 12-week training to be a federal agent. I still have that M28 Smith, but it is not stoked with Roundnose .38 Specials.

Adam

My thoughts on stopping power is that it's important for those who can't shoot accurately. If the shot is placed where it goes, down goes the target. If a military 50 cal hit a hip at 1200 yards the upper body usually leaves the lower body. If a .22 short goes in the eyeball and finishes in the brain, at that point life in that target ceases to exist. Any game animal I've placed a shot to the head, ended on the ground before the recoil ended. Humans are a form of animal in life's circle. The best defense is awareness, to not let yourself get into those situation. Regardless, practice.....a lot. Tactical training readies one better than stand up range time. But put rounds out in different situations; seated, kneeling, forward, backwards, upside down, on your back, right and left handed, or any position you might find yourself in. Just buy the ammo that makes you comfortable and shoot it. .02

Please forgive if I've posted this in the past.

http://www.thegunzone.com/quantico-wounding.html

Quote:

Conclusions
Physiologically, no caliber or bullet is certain to incapacitate any individual unless the brain is hit. Psychologically, some individuals can be incapacitated by minor or small caliber wounds. Those individuals who are stimulated by fear, adrenaline, drugs, alcohol, and/or sheer will and survival determination may not be incapacitated even if mortally wounded.

The will to survive and to fight despite horrific damage to the body is commonplace on the battlefield, and on the street. Barring a hit to the brain, the only way to force incapacitation is to cause sufficient blood loss that the subject can no longer function, and that takes time. Even if the heart is instantly destroyed, there is sufficient oxygen in the brain to support full and complete voluntary action for 10-15 seconds.

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." 42,43 Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet.44