Hunt Chat - Jim Zumbo's anti-gun blog

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- - Jim Zumbo's anti-gun blog (http://www.huntchat.com/showthread.php?t=45067)

Skeet...thank you honey...that cleared up alot.

I reckon I feel more for him than most because I share the same label as the ar-15. His entire life is gone in less than a week. What a shame.
Dont misunderstand me...I will always have my guns. There is WAY to many generations of fightin blood in my body not to whoop anybody who attempts to take my guns. In fact, I'd whoop em so bad their mama wouldnt recognize em them next time she saw em.
But...bein the uneducated person that I am...I always assumed (that there is a dangerous word) that the ar-15 was an assault rifle...used fer assaultin people or things. But that's just me. While I DO understand that they aint no difference than any other rifle, just the looks...they were named...assault rifles. So there the bad rap started. Just like the word Confederate.

Both of those are now "engrained" bad words so to speak....and Zumbo sure aint help that cause nary a bit. Apparently I aint helpin the "Confederate" cause none either cause I am apologizin fer slavery, renaming the museum of the confederacy in richmond AND they are also movin it to God knows where.

Yep...we're alllllll over it.
:D

Riposte I can understand the perspective you use for weapons. But perspective is exactly what I try to avoid by not using the word. When people hear the word weapon they immediately have visions of dire actions from other people. I sure am not too politically correct. I just try to let folks know that the tools I use for my fun and even income (in the past) are not intended to be used for weapons. If they are used for weapons it is as a last resort. Don't want or need to shoot anyone unless absolutely necessary. We have to work in ways to let the undecided know that the gun owners in this country are not a threat to their safety...which is exactly what the Brady bunch keep telling everyone...that we are a threat to them. You and I ...both know better. But we still have to convince the undecided! That is why I don't use the word...and cringe when I hear it in public...other than us shooters:D :D

Darlin
Whatever you might say about yourself... uneducated... is one thing I know you are not. We are all uneducated in certain ways. Sometimes we have our minds made up and nothing anyone can do will change it..even if we are wrong. The thing that hurts us is letting ourselves believe certain things just because someone else says so. The assault gun thing. Heck a Brown Bess Musket was an assault weapon at one time as was a Springfield musket and an 03 Springfield. The words assault weapon were probably coined by one of the Brady bunch for all I know. But they sure spout that phrase all the time now. Makin us believe they are evil just because of what they are called or because they say so.
Just because there are a bunch of apologists in the world today apologising for the Civil war or slavery or whatever doesn't make what is happening right. Even people who should know better want to say the civil war was all about slavery. I never owned a slave...and neither did my father. Why should I apologize for slavery or pay reparations to people just because they want me too. Get over it and get on with life. Don't forget ...but get over it is what I say. I ain't preachin to you cause I think you feel this way too. Just ranting I guess....but not at you!
I feel bad for Zumbo in some respects...but I think he would have to understand the fact that we have to pay for our actions or words if we are wrong..and get kudos for the same things if we are right. He just stepped on his own tongue....or whatever!! and now the fiddler wants to be paid!!

We have a friend at Guns and Ammo it seems

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/long_guns/phar_022707/

Quote:

Sporting ARs
Stoner's brilliant battle design is following tradition by heading into the woods.
By Dick Metcalf

("The following article was prepared for press prior to the current controversy concerning AR rifles used in hunting, and will appear in the May/June issue of Petersen's Hunting.")

Sporterized military guns have always found their way into the hunting fields--and always with resistance from traditionalists.

Virtually every type of centerfire sporting rifle in existence started off as a military weapon. The classic lever-action deer gun, long the most popular type of hunting rifle in America, began as the Henry Rifle of the Civil War era, designed to bring rapid fire against the enemy. The lever-action was succeeded in universal popularity by the bolt-action--the standard hunting rifle of today--which we owe to Paul Mauser's classic battle-rifle design.

Now another rifle of military origin is moving rapidly into prominence in the hunting and sport shooting world: the AR15 .223 and AR10 .308. And, like its predecessors, the AR platform is meeting resistance, even outright opposition, from many hunters who are personally wedded to earlier gun designs. No surprise there; when the lever action was first used for hunting, traditionalists, whose idea of a "real" hunting gun was a single-shot muzzleloader, distained the need for a repeat-fire tool.

First-generation bolt-action military surplus rifles were also disparaged by many sportsmen as "inappropriate" for hunting. But the AR design's proven capability has already made it the rifle of choice for top-level civilian high-power rifle competition. It is also increasingly the rifle of choice for serious long-range varmint and predator shooters, and it's appearing in increasing numbers in the big-game hunting arena, as well.

It should. ARs are not all just .223 caliber. In fact, most people are probably not aware that the AR design originated as a .308 (7.62mm), not as a .223 (5.56mm).

To get your AR to match the accuracy of the best hunting rifles, swap out its barrel for a match-grade version.

Technically speaking, it makes all the sense in the world that proven military rifle designs should be inherently appropriate for hunting use. All successful military rifles are specifically designed for rugged, reliable function and durability under extreme conditions, which translates automatically into use under even the most extreme field-hunting use. They're also designed for reasonable weight, portability and ease of fast handling by people who may be carrying other heavy gear and wearing bulky clothing. They have an inherent capability for follow-up shots, and they must be deadly accurate against targets of the same basic dimensions and at the same distances typically encountered by hunters.

The AR in particular is a superb hunting design, due primarily to its lightweight synthetic and corrosion-resistant alloy construction. And, it's surprisingly accurate, due primarily to the fact it's an "assembled" gun rather than a "fitted" gun. Its major components essentially snap together. Unlike a traditional bolt-action rifle, which generally requires close-tolerance, hand-work receiver/barrel mating and precise bedding into the stock for maximum accuracy and consistency, a hunting-grade (or even competition-grade) AR can readily be assembled from modular components literally on a kitchen table, by anybody with a modicum of ability to use relatively simple hand tools. Likewise, a service-grade "standard" AR15 can readily be brought up to minute-of-angle performance by selective replacement of key modular elements with match-grade parts. And, once tuned, an AR stays that way, due to the fact that its entirely nonorganic components (nonwood) are not susceptible to environmental distortion (warpage or swelling). All an AR really needs is a quality barrel to shoot as well as the best hunting rifle you can buy.

Hunting versions of the AR design, in a wide variety of chamberings, are currently offered by several manufacturers. One of the early leaders in AR hunting rifle and sport configurations has been ArmaLite, which offers both lightweight and heavy-barrel configurations in .223 (M-12A series) for long-range varmint and predator hunting, .308-chambered versions (AR-10 series) for deer hunting and competition and even a super-accurate .300 Remington Short-Action Ultra Mag (AR-10T Ultra), which is as good an elk, moose or general heavy game chambering as you can get.

MIX & MATCH
Because of its modular design, an AR is very easy to "sporterize" at your home workbench. The range of available quick-install AR accessories is nearly infinite, including a wide variety of precision-adjustable metallic sights, a diversity of optical sight-mount options, many different designs of adjustable or fixed buttstocks and forends (handguards), and attachments for varied styles of carrying and/or shooting slings and bipods for long-range precision shooting. A growing number of AR users are also taking advantage of the basic design to have different upper receivers in different chamberings and/or barrel lengths/weights made to attach to the same lower receiver (legally the serial-numbered actual "firearm"), making an AR nearly as versatile as a T/C Encore.

Other manufacturers offer complete AR rifles and AR upper receivers chambered for such excellent hunting cartridges as the 6.8mm Remington SPC, up to big-bore dangerous-game chamberings such as the .458 SOCOM or .500 Beowulf.

ARs are legal for hunting anywhere any other semiauto centerfire hunting rifle (such as a Browning BAR or Remington 742 or 7400) is legal--except in states that may have passed laws banning specific models and configurations of semiautomatics by calling them "assault rifles."

As for the "black rifle" issue...well, I like wood as much as the next guy, but the most popular hunting rifles in America these days, of any type, all have black or gray synthetic stocks, dull matte surface treatments or camo finishes, anyway. Black or camo bolt-action rifles, or black or camo ARs--what's the difference? If hunting with a "black gun" bothers you, don't. If you oppose others using a hunting tool simply because it doesn't "look right," you're standing on the same political platform as the California state legislature. Hunters should not do the antigun, antihunter groups' work for them.

The AR platform is a hunting rifle, and anyone who says differently simply doesn't know history.

Lilred;

Just so you will have a clear technical understanding, before the politicians decided they were the experts, Dept of Defense defined "Assault Rifle" as a rifle of intermediate power, capabale of fully automatic fire. As opposed to a Main Battle Rifle which is of "full" power and can be semi-auto or some other sort of repeater (like a Bolt Action).

The term "Assault Weapon" was invented by the gun grabbers in Congress to confuse folks...apparently it worked. It includes both long guns and pistols and the list it includes seems to grow every day.

On another note, I saw a bumper sticker that you might like the other day...it had the "Stars and Bars" and said "Fighting terrorism since 1861" :)

Best regards,
Riposte

Skeet;
It is perfectly OK to have a different pespective. You can articulate your position well and that is what counts. Folks have different life experiences.

I am relatively old and more than a little bit tired of sheep. One of the better moments I have had was when 60 Minutes inteviewed my friend Clint Smith on sniping and were hem hawing around the issue when Clint directly said "you know, some people just need to be shot."

No sane, righteous person wants to shoot other people for some thrill or to feel "big". In fact only a psychopath wants to harm folks at all. But if we are to deal with violence which comes our way we have to face the fact that we either have to meet it effectively (and to do that we have to prepare well before hand) or suffer the consequences.

I would highly commend to every person who goes out into the public to read Jeff Snyder's "A Nation of Cowards" essay.

I always liked Jeff Coopers retort to someone who suggest to him "violence begets violence". He said "It is my fervent hope this is true...if someone visits violence on me he will get more than he can stand in return."

I appoligize for my intensity, but this is something I feel intensely. The answer to predatory criminal behavior is not to run, hide or cower...it is to stop it right there on the spot.

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

Best regards,
Riposte

"The will to win is nothing without the will to Prepare."

BTW, now that I have contributed to the thread drift, perhaps I can get it back somewhat by noting that in about 20 minutes I am off for an Elk Hunt :)

Unfortunately, it will be with a camera not a gun. Nowhere near as nutritional but it beats watching TV (like I would know, I dont even get TV).

Riposte

Riposte,

I love that post of yours. Personally, I think that every sane adult should carry a gun. That way, people will think twice about committing a crime. Can you imagine how much rape would fall if rapists knew that every woman carried a gun. Everybody wants to run and hide from these violent crimes, and it pisses me off. Okay, I am going to stop here before I really get going and spend the rest of my afternoon responding to something we both agree on.

terrorism since 1861

I like that bumper sticker. Ya know I'm kinda old too although not as old as Rocky. But I spent some time in the same theater of, well, fighting as he did. I'm a little tired of the sheeple in this country too. Just try not to get them bleating and running using words that scare them. or ones they don't understand! Nothing to apologize for as I do understand. Read the nation of cowards and agree with most. And the man was right..some folks just deserve killin. Seriously shot just ain't enough for some. And Fabs is a standup guy...even if he is an attorney(that's high brow for lawyer or Calhoon). And ya know...you ain't missin much by not "gettin" TV!:D :D Hope ya "get an elk or two!

Here's one from the Lilred book of filosofy:

Every human bein needs their arsh kicked at one time or another. Some people needs their arsh kicked more than once. The ones that never learn face natural selection.

As ya'll already know...I'm a firm believer in natural selection lol

Boy, I leave the state for a week, and all of this happens!

Jim Zumbo screwed up. He apologized. He ruined his own career. He gave the anti's more fuel to run their machine.

I just spent a lot of time reading all of the posts, and I learned a lot. Then it happened. On page four, we started fighting each other. At this point, haven't the anti's won?

I've read all of your posts for years, and have developed respect for you, and have gained a little insight into your beliefs. I don't pretend to understand everything that makes you tick, and I don't try to judge anyone.

Fact: We are all passionate about gun ownership, and we do NOT want that right taken away in any form.

Fact: A high profile individual in the hunting community criticized something that many of us believe in.

Fact: That criticizm(sp?) will more than likely be used against us.

What we do not need to happen is for this issue to divide US, because the conquer part will soon follow.

Fabs, Lil Red, Skeet, et al: I enjoy reading your posts, and I respect where all of you are coming from.

Diversity can make us great, but division will make us weak.

And that sir is exactly why Zumbo lost his livelihood. But he still doesn't get it. He blames the shooting public for taking his livelihood away. He still doesn't understand he did it to himself...when he did to us what he did!!Division among the people that enjoy the freedom of owning and shooting firearms has always been one of our worst problems. The shotgun guys saying well I don't own a pistol so why should I worry...the rifle guys saying well I don't own an "assault rifle" AR 15 so why should I worry?? I do worry. I also wonder what would happen if we all stuck together! Think we could change the face of a nation? Personally I do. After all, the anti's, who are well funded and are sticking together are surely trying...and in the past because of apathy in OUR ranks have made inroads into our Constitutional rights. Heck the laws built into the books now about an automatic 5 yrs for the commission of a crime using a firearm is almost never charged...and if charged traded away in plea deals. That should be the only part of the charges that should never be plead out. Why don't we try to make that the law of the land...No pleas on firearm crime!!

I agree about that. The laws for criminals need to be a lot harsher, and I am not just talking about gun crimes. I am talking about all crimes. I have represented a guy over the past 3 years on 5 different occassions, and he continued to get probation after probation, and I almost got him a weekend sentence on his violation of probation for his second DUI, which I hadn't represented him on to begin with. The Judge finally said no way, but it took him 5 minutes of deliberation to come to that conclusion. He sentenced him to a month. Yeah, I felt bad for my client, but I felt good for society in general. My client did 21 of the 30 days because of good behaviour and then told me it was a good vacation from work with cable TV, 3 meals a day, and free time to workout and sleep. Since then, he got his 3rd DUI and if you read the police report it would make you sick. I no longer represent him. Criminals should be required to do hard labor, period, even if it entails digging a hole, filling it back up, and digging it again.

Quote:

Originally posted by fabsroman
The laws for criminals need to be a lot harsher, and I am not just talking about gun crimes. I am talking about all crimes. .........Criminals should be required to do hard labor, period, even if it entails digging a hole, filling it back up, and digging it again.

There will be a vacancy for the post of Attorney General of the United States coming open in less than two years. If that's not your cup of tea, there's always SOCUS, though you'll likely have to wait until someone dies. :D

Politics just isn't me. I wouldn't be able to win because I wouldn't be able to hold my tongue about criminals, welfare, illegal immigration, the deficit, and a myriad of other controversial issues. Every politician tries to be somewhere in the middle of all those topics, and I'm just not that guy.

Zumbo's appology

I've been watching this Zumbo excercize in stupidity thing a while, I thought I'd finally chime in on it here.

Zumbo's appology reads like it was wrote by a philladelphia lawyer turned PR man.
As in, gee, I made a mistake.

I said "sorry".

"Kin I come play now?"

"I'll be good".
Or the time proven "I see the light and am "saved"!

I've met Zumbo several times, he never impressed me all that much but he sure as heII does now!

I'm very highly impressed I'm impressed that thinks he could stick his foot that far up his arrss and ....... still think he can get it out without it smellin. :eek:

Kinda like sayin "well I only commited 1 murder" or "only 1 rape" . "I said I was Sorry, golly gee, why do I need ta go to jail?"

Hnter

My sentiments exactly. The Cody paper wrote an editorial excoriating the NRA for shooting Zumbo down and scorning him. Actually accused them of orchestrating the move to have him removed from all the endorsments and advertising. They never got in touch with me. I also told the Cody Paper in a letter to the editor(which I am sure won't be printed) that they didn't need to be an apologist for him. He never really apologized for his statements. Even blamed the people out there for "taking my living away from me". Told the paper that he had to accept responsibility for that and no one else..also that until he actually wrote an apology that was earnest and believeable that he would stay in "Zumbo Limbo" Sheesh, all the liberals want to blame the NRA for everything. even when it ain't so!! And again.."I was tired" after a long day of coyote hunting! In a 60 MPH wind?? C'mon Zumbo! Why is it nobody seems to be able to accept responsibility for their own actions any more??

Long time no hear :>). Hows it goin? :D

I know Zumbo, He's never shown me much.

I don't think the NRA had a heII of a lot ta do bout his demise, I think it was hisself and other tru-progun shooters who ar darned well tired of the purest appeaser BS. I sure as heII am!!!

Zumbo made his bed, let him die in it!!!

Hunter

I have to make an amendment to the last post I had. The Cody paper actually printed what I said. But they still have apologists saying he is entitled to his 1st amendment rights. Well he used 'em...and now the every day Joe is voicing his!! NRA didn't do anything. He has to reap what he has sown!!

Nobody wants to take responsibility for anything anymore. Just finished up a 2004 tax return for a client of mine. One of the charitable deductions was a contribution to the democratic national committee for the 2004 Presidential election. This guy had a $400,000 capital gain on a rental property in 2004, and he is complaining because he has to pay $50,000 in taxes. I didn't mention that if the democrats had their way, he would be paying close to $100,000 on that capital gain, but I should have. He also wants socialized health care with the government picking up the tab. I cannot imagine howmuch he would cry when he had to pay taxes for that. If he wasn't suffering from Parkinson's and cancer, I would be pissed.

Zumbo is paying for what he said. Me, I completely avoided political issues with this client, because he still needs to have his 2005 and 2006 returns completed and they are worth close to $2,000 a piece to me. We all need to think before speaking or acting, period, and we need to take responsibility for our actions and apologize when we are wrong, but stand behind what we believe in too.

Ok den... just drop him a web addy for this site... :)

The NRA had very little to say about Zumbo except for saying they were severing professional contact from him.

Y'all can check it it fer yerseff at www.nra.org

It's in the archives, in the search function box type in zumbo

The NRA was very non confrontational with their news release about Dumbo Zumbo's elitest anti gun screwup.

Hnter

I get my news on Hunt Chat!

Thanks for all the posts everyone. I was still in Zimbabwe when this hit the fan. Left 110 degree weather and returned to snow. Spent over two weeks dealing with a sinus infection, chest cold and sore throat. Dam* was I glad to shake that mess! Heard a few rumors of what was going on but this thread brought me up to speed. Due to a backlog of work and the rush to get my clients booked into Africa for this seasons hunts, I failed to keep updated on this thread. I found it harsh at first (actions taken against Mr. Zumbo) but it took reading everyone's posts to better understand why he was in Hell's fire. Truth of the matter is; Once you squeeze the tooth paste out of the tube, how do you get it back in? Not impossible, but it won't be easy. Like Jim Zumbo or not, he was a figure in our sport, hobby or passion. His comments will remain with him for life. No matter how hard he tries, he will have a hard time getting the "tooth paste back into the tube." Personally, I think the man shot himself in the foot. I do not agree with his statement in any form, shape or way. I think his apology is lame, but I am a person who forgives. I believe it was Fabs who posted "But he'll have to earn my respect back." Same here. I won't give it easily, but neither will I let it play a role in dividing our community. I don't care if you want to bow hunt (with any bow type), muzzle load, rifle, pistol or shoot cool looking semi-auto rifles or have a legal permit to own and shoot machine guns. I won't let bickering lead me down the road to "divide and conquer." We all love the shooting sports and hobbies or we wouldn't be communicating on this web site. I hope we can all agree to disagree, but keep our eyes on the same target. Good hunting and shooting, grayghost

While I personally don't care for Zumbo because of personal experiences and exchanges with him, I can understand why some like him.

I don't think this is/was a devide and beat issue. Zumbo made a horrific mistake brought on by an elitest "I know better than you" because of an "I'm the great Zumbo" complex. Having known a few professional outdoor writers (liars) I can even understand that.

It's possible Zumbo can come back. However, if he were a greeny anti gun guy and had screwed them like he did us, they'd never trust him again. .......................................................
They'd turn their backs on him forever.

I guess we're just willing to forgive and forget.

Progun people must be nicer than antigun idjuts.

Well said hnter. I think you hit the nail on the head: sometimes people get the big head and forget who put them on the top steps to begin with: we the people. As mentioned in this long thread, some of the elitist writers were quick to defend Mr. Zumbo, but I bet they sh*t their pants with worry. I've hunted most of my life. Started as a child. Have been a professional Taxidermist, Hunting Consultant/Booking agent, fresh and saltwater fisherman (pleasure and tournament), hunt with bow, muzzle loader, rifle & pistol, can skin, quarter, de-bone, cut up and package any game animal walking and believe it or not, I'm a pretty good cook. But I'll be the first to admit; I'm an expert at nothing. Maybe Mr. Jim can retire now, enjoy life and write his memoirs. Someone might want to buy a copy...maybe. Good hunting, grayghost