"Perfect" deer caliber/rifle...lol......
 

MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm new here and was reading back through some of your posts. I love you guys!!

Heh, heh, heh..........Closeknit, able to argue, agree to disagree...My kind of folks.

Just so you'll know, I'm mostly a bowhunter though my rifle shooting experience is extreme. My confidence gun is a semi-custom built Whitworth Mauser in 25/06. When it fires, something dies. Period. It had 2000+ rounds fired through it before firing a factory load. I was a bigtime handloader but stopped many years ago. No time anymore and not nearly as convenient as it was. I had a 400 yard range in my yard so I could litterally step to the door and fire a round to check pressures.

As do you all, I have my opinions as well. I hate discussing energy figures of cartridges simply because bullet construction decides how much of that energy is actually used "Within the intended target"!!! That is the crucial factor.

Anyways, take care and I look forward to meeting you all here.

Tony

Howdy, Tony. Oddly enough you sound like our kind of guy, too!

(Well, except for that non-reloader thing.)

Welcome aboard.

Thanks for the welcome Rocky.

I do miss my handloading some but just do not have the time anymore. I'm not at all disappointed in the performance of a lot of the new factory ammo so I am ok with off the shelf now.

By the way, I am also a deer processor in the winter so I get the chance to see a whole lot of bullet performance. Very interesting to talk with my clients and see their perspective of things. I can generally find out real quick who is experienced and who isn't....heh, heh, heh

Tony

Welcome to Huntchat, Gatorbum.
Funny you should mention the 25-06. Had one of those, a Ruger 77 Mk2. Loaned it to a friend. He proceeded to kill 4 deer with 4 shots, and then made me an offer for it I couldn't turn down. ;)

havent taken deer with my 2506 yet, but in my opion it is the best of the best when it comes to deer only calibers. its fast flat acurate and does it all with factory ammo,

im kinda in your shoes. i reload for both my 270wsm and 2506. latly ive been loadinf for the wsm just for the simple fact that i havent found the acuracy i want outa facotry ammo. i tested about 8 difrent powder charges in the wsm and finaly found one i liked that pushed the 140gr nolser bt just hair faster than 3000fps. i found this process a true pain in the ass. grrrr


my 2506 shoots about every thing i feed it plenty acurate enough to keep me happy, my load of choice is some kinda powder pushn some kinda charge, undere the 100gr nolser balistic tip. cant remember the load or powder off hand but i do know it keeps me happy.

it also like 100gr factory rem core lokts. this facotry ammo shooots so well ive almost quit reloading for it. the facotry rem core lockt load is fairly slow and the bullet bc leavs something to be desired but it just flat out works doesnt matter if im shootn at 100yds or 400. more often then not the varmit is sent tumbling and peices are flying.

so i gree the 2506 along with all the other 257 calibers make great deer only rifles and when deers on the menu youl never be left wanting more.

Evan

Thanks Evan and I agree. I've never actually found a bad load for my 25. The absolutely easiest rifle I've ever developed a load for. It just shoots everything great. I've never seen a factory load open up more than a one inch group. Very impressive cartridge. Niedner did good.....

I had a 308 Ruger Ultra light that I wondered if I would ever get it to shoot anything. Finally found 2 loads, one light load for my wife and a heavy load for me. Mine was simply a Nosler solid base, 150gr., and 3031 powder. Pretty well maxed out charge I had to compress powder with the bullet seating. This was only after doing everything imaginable to the gun and 3 full pages of a legal pad of loads tested. Actually her load is kind of interesting. I took a Sierra boat tail soft point in varmint weight, 125gr., and loaded it down to just above 30/30 velocities. Very mild recoil even in that super lightweight rifle and the first deer she killed was a 218 pound 10 point at 150 yards. Perfect mushroom just under the skin on the off side. Wrecked him really good and he ran about 75 yards. At full velocities that bullet explodes but keeping it slow makes it perform perfectly.

I cannot imagine a "Better" all around deer cartridge than my 25/06. JMHO and hundreds of dead whitetails and hogs could tell you as well.....heh, heh, heh

Take care

Tony

Welcome to HC Gatorbum, tho I ain't got nothing against the quarter bores and even have a Vanguard in 25-06, it's a mighty fine caliber, just not my first choice. I guess it's because I got so many other great calibers at my disposal!! By the way, can you hunt gators with a bow? That might be interesting, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

Gatorbum;
It's nice to have a favorite caliber, it's even nicer to discuss favorite calibers with some one who recognizes that a number of calibers will get the job done!
best to you and yours...
ears-

Greetings Hunters! I just wanted to say hello and howdy howdy.

I reckon I have hunted whitetail deer with more types of rifles than I can remember (brain arthritis says the doc!) including my first 300 Win mag but once I got the hang of a model 70 1/4 bore (25-06) the wife bought me some years back, I just knew after it's first hunt, nothing was going to replace it in my hands as my go to gun......Amen.

Best deer round? Simple

.270win
130gr. ammo
end of story.

Welcome Gatorbum!!

Cant blame you for the 25-06. Awesome deer cartridge. I like mine ALOT.

I was waiting for the O'Connor fan to pipe up. :D

Here we go again......

Andy

looks like the 257 cals are takin the ranks.

6 vots for 257
1 for 277

and one wildcat .25/308


im bound and determined to get deer with my 270wsm, i branded the rifle as mine this last deer season in one pack in hunt. rifle looks more like its 10 years old than 2. its very acurate and awesome handling rifle. recoil is very managable, and thats saying alot comeing from me. i run from recoil.

everything in a standerd cartridge from 6mm-300win will make a very good deer gun, difrent tastes and styles of hunting will decide what caliber is best out the bunch.

What advantage to they have over the .277 other than sentimental value?

Reverse the question??

The same advantage that the 277 has over the 284!


(Meaning damn little, except for what we like best, and THAT is how this thread started!)


Oh, and I guess that wildcat 25-308 is my little baby. But I do like it a lot!

As far as factory loading, the .277 is loaded in a wider range of bullet types and what not. Same thing with the .257 as the .284

.277 beats them all hands down. That is, when you compare them with equal case sizes.

Hey...model 70;

....are you sayin' that since you like beans...I don't need to plant 'taters?

Good one ears...

And Rocky, that 25/308 sounds interesting but an awful lot like an old favorite, 250/3000. Probably getting a bit more velocity huh? Tell me more........

Guys, this thread was started "Tongue in cheek" simply as a play on a previous thread. There is "NO" perfect deer rifle. It is too personal of a choice between folks. They are all perfectly capable of doing what is necessary. The perfect rifle? Mine or yours or his or hers. Whichever YOU have the most confidence in.

If you want to debate something, debate the value of bullet construction. Do you want it to use ALL of the energy available and stay within the target (No exit hole) or something to blow on through not knowing how much of its energy was used but having an exit hole? Afterall, it is the BULLET that kills, not the caliber. JMHO

Take care and NO FIGHTING :D

GB, the 25-308 isn't my personal creation, but it's a very overlooked wildcat.

In case capacity (and even shape), the 308 just about exactly matches the vaunted 250 Savage Ackley Improved. Old Parker Otto thought that was one of his best creations - but the 308 wasn't around then. I bet if it had been, he'd have just necked it down and the 250 AI wouldn't have happened.

I reasoned that necking down is a whole passel easier than blowing out a case, and if the outcome is identical, why mess with it?

Read my whole article on it (the link to my page is below). It's nice. Even Evan likes it!

I was waiting for Model 70 to chime in. He always makes a "No Perfect Deer Cartridge" thread interesting.

I agree completely with Gatorbum, in that bullet construction/ability is the big thing that matters.

Rocky,

I went to your site and low and behold I was stunned. You had the most elaborate testing of the old 256mag. I have ever seen!

I was delighted to say the least. I have been shooting the 256 in a Marlin 62 for over 35 years! The last factory ammo a buddy found for me was a gun show and cost me $75. I have tried a few of the commercially available custom loads with little success. I have loading dies and have loaded some myself however case head seperation was an issue. Seems you have to match the fired case to the specific gun (I had 2 rifles) and then neck size only. Creating cases out of nickled 357 brass made a very wicked looking load with some old Hornady 60 gr. spirepoints! Making the cases was a nightmare however. By annealing them in a cast iron frying pan on the stove and then quickly putting them through the full length die, I achieved reasonable sucess without crumpling them all.

I have quit loading my own but would give anything to find some great hunting load for my rifle. It is not overly accurate with the factory loads (Maybe11/2-2") but devastating on game. I have killed lots of deer with it and it does a fine job at close to moderate range. Kids have killed their first deer with it many times at 50-100 yards. I love it and would most likely never actually get rid of it but would surely like to know if Icould get better accuracy out of a great expanding hunting load.

Are you interested in playing with it?

Take care

Tony

Gator,
I know it was tongue in cheek, but like Fabs, I was just waiting for mod 70 to show up. He just cant stand it. :D

There are alot of perfect deer rifles. You are correct on that. Many will get the same desired results with different combinations as well. (Even though the 270 is out performed on both the lower and upper ends of the bullet range by other rifles. :D ) Sorry, couldnt resist......

Your gonna fit in great here. Glad to have you aboard.

Andy

Well now fellar's, if your gonna be talking "wildcats" lets talk about a real wildcat that will make the so called .270 shooters take 2 steps backwards in amazement Okey Dokey.

How about a .25/300WSM! Now that ought to make the skeptics take a real hard look at reality I suppose. It sure does turn a head or two around these parts. Place a 120 grain Nosler Partition or Sierra Boatail bullet in the chamber and it will certainly straighten out any notion about rainbow trajectories I mean to tell yall. The last reading I took off my chrony was around 3450fps give or take a foot or two. Now how's that fer a bean field shooter?;) ;)

Holy mother of God!

I want one.........

I bet that thing erodes barrels a bit but if you only really hunted with it you could use it a long time. How's accuracy? All the 25's I've ever dealt with or heard about have been exceptional shooters. Is this one that easy to find a pet load for?

Take care

Tony

Reading a little Elmer Keith last night, there was a picture of his wife with a Mule Deer she took with a .333 OKH (about the same numbers as today's .340 Weatherby). He said it was a fine deer rifle.

I've been carefully looking at the bullet performance chart that was posted on another thread. Very revealing. There is a lot to the statement that bullet construction is possibly as important as caliber.

My present theory is that anything from .25" diameter to .323" diameter, at least 100 grains for the smaller bores, more for the larger ones, and good bullet construction is going to produce a dead deer with decent shot placement. Everything beyond that is just personal preference.

I'm even back to flirting with the idea that a 243, with a 100 grain Grand Slam, at 3,000 fps is adequate for pronghorn (125 pounds). Some of you may remember that I was gravitating toward the other side of that issue.

Naw, if you like "taters", eat them. If you're hungry and need something cheap and convenient, it's the beans that you want.

many cartridges out perform the .270win

the 7mm rem mag, .300win mag and other calibers out perform the .270 but why do you need all that recoil and muzzle blast to shoot a deer further than what MOST hunters can see? I'm simpley stating the .270 is the best all around round.

:D

Model 70.......I'll only tell you to listen up and read this cause the 25-06 can do anything the .270 can do and the recoil is lighter yet by some 40% if your worried about loosing the fillings in your teeth OK.

I reckon you could even go down a notch, to the .243 that so many seem to think is for killing rats and varmints only. It too has enough energy to kill whitetail deer at 300 yards using a premium bullet. My brother in law years ago kill more elk (under 150 yards) than any 3 average elk hunters in their lifetime using the very caliber. Just put that little bullet in the kill zone and the animal will be yours, with proper bullet weight and construction.

Hi Ball, I hope you don't mind but I will add to that quote just a bit.

"For the velocity at which it is fired".

CALIBER means NOTHING compared to bullet construction/performance.

Here's my 270 story. When I was young, I bought an old Rem. 760 in 270. Steel butt plate and ribbing on the forearm similar to a Mod. 12 winchester. Great gun but it would slam the crap out of you. Too much drop in the stock which made it kick too much. That gun nearly ruined me. I developed a flinch bad enough I could not even shoot my 22 accurately anymore. I finally managed to get over it but it took a lot of time and effort. Now this was more the fault of the GUN and not the caliber. It killed very well.

Now my 243 story. I traded that 270 for a Win. Model 88 in 243. God I loved that rifle. No recoil to speak of and incredibly accurate. (Later as I began to reload, that Mod.88 would shoot as well as ANY bolt gun!) The only problem was that the caliber would not kill reliably with factory ammo. Make perfect shots and the deer would run off like they weren't even hurt. Bullet performance was absolutely terrible and thus gave the 243 a bad reputation as a wounder. (An example: I shot a 200 pound hog behind the shoulder with a Rem. 80 gr. bullet. He ran so I shot him again going away. Hit him in the right ham and upon dressing him I found the bullet in the v formed were the bottom jaw comes together at his nose. This is supposed to be a varmint bullet yet it shot LENGTHWAYS through a big hog with very little damage. When I got to the hog I finished him off with a 22 mag. behind the ear. I was NOT happy with my 243) I turned to reloading premium bullets (Pet load was an 85gr. Sierra HP) and this gun would kill like lightning. Load that 243 with Partition bullets or one of the other premium bullets and you have as good as it gets for DEER to 300+ yards. By the way, just to tell you how terrible the factory rounds really were, I shot anti-freeze jugs full of water at 350 yards and thought I was missing. Reality was that those bullets, 80gr. and 100gr. from Rem. and Win., were simpply poking holes and draining the water without any shock effect at all! Shot those same jugs with that 85 grainer or my partition load and it exploded, even at that extreme range. THE BULLET IS BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT COMPONENT OF EVERY CALIBER. IMHO

Take care

Tony

Gatorbum,
Bet you had no idea your tounge in cheek intro was gonna fire this back up, this much, did you? :D

I was sitting here giggling ever since you wrote the first post, waiting for model 70 to pipe up. We all know there are many deer rifles that could be considered perfect. None will kill one deader than the next. From the 243 to the big mag boomers. They all work great. Some will do better than others on paper, but in the field, your gonna get the same results with a wide range of rifles/bullets combos, if you do your job.

Thanks for bringing this back up. Its entertaining anyway. Ill say it again, the 270 is a good rifle if you can only afford one gun (but if thats the case, your still better off with a 30-06). But the 25-06 out performs it with lighter bullets and less recoil and the 280 outperforms it with heavier bullets and about the same recoil. (However in the ones that I have shot, the 280 mountain rifle had less recoil than the 270 bdls I shot.)


True Story. :D

Andy

Allen.........I must agree that there are many a fine caliber that one could tag as the "perfect" whitetail deer gun. I myself have used most of those calibers over the years and can varify that bigger is NOT BETTER when it comes to whitetail deer hunting.

I remember the first time (1963) I used a 300 Win mag (Belgium Browning Rifle) with a 150 grain bullet out the barrel. Why that bullet hitting the shoulder, darn near took that deer in half at 40 yards! I can put that 7mm mag into the same catagory up close using the 140 grain bullet.

Then their was the time I had to try out my very first .458 big bore in a Express gun. Boy it sure taught me a lesson that day, hitting a buck in the chest with a 500 grain bullet at less than 50 yards. Never be resting up against a tree and pull the trigger on that cannon ever again! The bullet hit the bucks spine and completely blew up the rear half of the bones and fragments and bone came out the back the size of a grapfruit. There was shreded bone driven into both hindquarters. Such power was awsome to wittness. Truly a waste of good venison........We live and hopefully learn! The year was 1964.

The last 10 years or so I have come to appreciate the finer things in life and one of those on my list is the 1/4 bore 25-06~!
Oh I do love em all I suppose, from the Triple Deuce to the 500 Nitro Express in the vault. They all have a purpose to serve but if I had to make a choice (Heaven Forbid!!!) of all those I have aquired over the years, I would not want to be without my 25-06 model 70 for the small stuff and the .416 mag model 70 for those things that bite back.

best
 

I've never been able to decide on just one piece.
Have loaded 25/06. Great. Like a fool I sold that Plane Jane shooter for something prettier. Now use 260 (hand rifle) 7/08, 284 and 280, plus play with a bunch of 'cats and handguns (there's a range out back as well).
The 7/08 is a Kimber Montana. It weights 6.5 lbs trailside and is a dream to carry and shoot. My hunt load is a 140 Barnes TSX at 2950 fps. AWSOME. Accurate, lethal and easy on the shoulder.

But, I like what I see in the new CZ Model 3. An updated version of the pre '64 Win, Model 70, with better safety features and prettier wood. Available in the Win short mags (270, 7mm and 300) only, at this time....and made in the USA. There are half dozen different makes of rifles in my safe, the CZ I own is by far the best buy.

I believe I can say without fear of contradiction that a .270 is the absolute best rifle in Model 70's safe.

Disclaimer: That may not be true for anybody's esle's safe. Your mileage may vary. Not to be used while operating heavy machinery. Batteries not included.

And if that doesn't make everybody around the campfire smile and slap their leg, I quit.

Re: "Perfect" deer caliber/rifle...lol......
 

At least you didn't say 300 Win Mag or a 270... ;)

Here is the perfect deer getter.
A 75cal Brown Bess Musket
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v161/xm15e2/Bess.jpg
Mild recoil. Minimal muzzle blast.
Good to 50 yards. What more could you want? :D

the .270 pulls ahead of the 25-06 when it comes to heavier bullet weights.

Skinny,

I'm the one that usually chimes in with the .300 Win Mag along with Andy L sometimes. We can always count on Model 70 for the .270, and we can count on Evan03 for the .25-06. Looks like Gatorbum might be another .25-06 fan to help Evan03 out, not the Evan03 needs much help.

Honestly, I have been trying to avoid this thread because this is such a subjective argument that there is no right or wrong answer. Kind of like arguing about which color is better, red or blue.

Personally, I would prefer a bazooka or a howizter where I live so that I could kill entire herds with a single shot. Artillery would be really nice too.

No kiddin mod 70?? Mabye thats why 120gr is the heavy for the quarter bore.... :rolleyes: :D

But the 280 kicks the 270 bad with heavier bullets.....

And, the 300 Win, as Fabs said, is even better yet. Actually, I dont know why I have parked my 300 Win. I got it when I graduated high school in 1985. It has killed a train load of deer. With a factory 150gr Core Lokt, I have never had a rifle perform any better, or as good, as that rig. And the recoil thing is not all that bad either. Its not much worse than any 270, 280 or 30-06 I have ever shot, some more, but not noticable when shooting at game.

You know what, Im not too sure thats not the perfect all around big game rifle period. Deer, pronghorn, elk, moose, bear, it will do it all. And talk about bullet selection.

Thanks Fabs. I may bring the ole 300 out of the safe this year, sight it in and use it. Its been a while and thats a shame to semi-retire such a performer. Flat shootin and hard hittin.

Andy

Andy L.......In the 60's I relied on the 222 for the small critters around the country side and soon set aside my .270 and 30-06 for a new love. A new Belgium Browning Safari 300 win mag for the big game animals of my future hunts, as that lastled for the next 20 or so years. I was never disappointed hunting with that rifle, once I learned it's true purpose and that was long range work for them most part on mule deer, elk, moose and bears alike.

Some time later in the early 80's, I got an itch and just had to scratch er some. So I stopped by the local gun store and brought home another model 70. Only this time it was a medium bore in the form of the .338 win mag. Now that is not to say that during those couple of decades, also picked up a bakers dozen or so of calibers up and down the spectrum. Including a half dozen wildcats as well.

Now just before the next century came onto the scene, I noticed a turning of events that lead me to believe, that the person who stated history has a way of repeating itself, certainly knew what he was talking about. I had already gone full circle in the line of rifle caliber's! I never gave much thought to such a happening as a young hunter. However, I can only say it has been a joyous experience to be quite frank. Shooting a 270, 25-06, 6.5, 30-06 or the Triple Deuce, still puts a smile on my face.

Just ran the diagnostics on my Mod 98, 7X57...it is YK3 compliant!