Glaser Blue or Glaser Silver?
 

I am thinking about ordering Glaser slugs for my Charter Undercover in 38 special. (Not the +P mind you)

Would you order Glaser Silver or Glaser Blue? I am leaning towards Glaser Blue.

GoodOlBoy

I don't remember what color they are but I'm ordering the ones with the bigger shot. Seems like they'd hold together better going through clothing and such as well as slowing down faster reducing the likelihood of over penetration.

Color coordinated ammo ?!?
Sounds like some joke Skinny and TD would pull......:D

I think I'd choose the blue, It would match most of my sport coats the best. Silver is a little too hussey for me.

harking back to the thread on the utilization of handloads and ultra high power loads for self defense wouldn't these rounds fall into that category?

After all it might be an evil 9MM and every jury member has heard them familiarized as cop killers and human killers. And a 38 special is much bigger than a 9MM so it must be a real man killer.

Horror of horrers.

Rant over, Bill

Aight ya smartalecs.

NOW. Glaser Blue (which goes with my eyes) or Silver (Which matches my shoes, but not my boots )

:D

Seriously which one?

GoodOlBoy

In my snubby, I use Silvertips (they match my hair) :D

ohhh good point Jack. I am gettin some grey streaks in mine.

Sounds like a winner to me. What do you guys think?

GoodOlBoy

Ok Mr. 16 guage. Lets assume I don't want to shoot a +p load in a non +p 38. And lets assume that I KNOW a 158grn LRN will go through a man like **** through a goose. And lets assume I suspect 158gr SJSP will do the same thing give or take an inch. Now. Assuming I am NEVER going to handload for this caliber. AND assuming I am not going to be using hollowpoints because we already have in evidence that judges and lawyers in this country are trying to push that buying a hollopoint is premeditated murder. AND assuming I work on a college campus where a pass through has the potential for hitting a dense population of about 22,000 people within a 14x14 block area. Lets also assume that if we are going to talk about the old FBI load that we also take into acocunt the fact that the FBI abandoned it because it wouldn't penetrate SOME tempered glass windshields. (Guess we better hope it aint a driveby huh?)

Under THOSE conditions how does a glaser sound to yas? (Yea it wont go through the windshield either huh?)

Yes I know there is NO guarentee that it will stop. I also know there is no gaurentee that it is going to NOT stop in a jacket etc. I also have two speed loaders full of 158gr LRN sitting beside the gun in its lock box in case the five glasser rounds don't do the trick. There also happens to be a 10 rounds box of CCI shotshells in there too. . . . . Hrm its a toolbox who woulda figured I would vary my tools. Both a screwdriver AND a wrench. What a concept.

We aren't talking about an assault of communist or terrorist sympathizers loaded with AK-97s with drumbs full of APDS ammunition wearing vests and armour. Because when we get to that point you are in alot deeper than you are going to easily get out of with a 5 shot snubnose .38

The REASON for the glasser. The ONLY reason I am buying a 6 pack of those expensive rounds is because if I have to gimp some jackarse that won't back down from a life threateneing situation (IE my life being threatened) simply by show of gun then I want SOME SMALL hope that when the bullet passes through him (assuming it does) it does not hit the approx 12 1/2 blocks of pavement and concrete we have on campus and ricochette through a window or into one of the MANY crowds we have.

Bare in mind I don't trust my life to just any tom dick and harry branded ammo either.

158gr LRN - Magtech
158gr SJSP - Magtech
109gr Shotshell - CCI/Speer

All of these I have extensively tested any they work each time every time. And each one I have multiples of in my box with the gun.

GoodOlBoy

Hey GOB
 

Don't take this wrong bud...but it seems you had your mind made up when ya posted the question. The only comment I have is this. You have already put too many suppositions into the equation already. My wife carries a S&W Chief's special(don't think it is +P rated as it is an older one). I loaded it with 110 gr JHP. Works just fine...expands pretty well. and worry about the hollow point issue later. What you would REALLY like to have is a one shot stop with no complete penetration. Yes there are probably many police departments that use hollow point ammo. The scenarios you have brought up are all possible...with any ammo...glasers included. If you have to worry about all the problems you have stated then the best thing to carry will be a sling shot(that is said tongue in cheek). In all the shooting victims i ever had to deal with...only two had complete pass thru's...one was a 9mm FMC to the left cheek..exit over the right ear and the other was 4 25 auto rounds to one victim..one thru the thigh one thru the shoulder one to the left side and the right arm..all passed thru. Another victim had 6 357 rounds into a 4 inch area center chest..none passed thru and they were all , if I remember correctly, 125 gr HP at a distance of less than 20 ft. Oh, the victim DID Not make it, BTW. Believe me..in a shooting situation... You'll be into real pucker mode.. Adrenaline is abundant in real high doses in a gun fight. I don't care how much training ya have.

Nope I really hadn't (and still haven't for the most part) decided between the blue and the silver glasers. As for deciding for glasers yeah that I did.

GoodOlBoy

Ya know I was just thinking maybe I came across wrong to Mr. 16 guage and everybody else. I appreciate ANY advice, and like an common sense shooter I know there is NO magic bullet. If there was we wouldn't be haveing this discussion at all. There are ups and downs to every single bullet type and round out there.

Basically what I wanted was peoples opinions on the two veriations of the glasser production for 38 special. The blue and the silver.

Anyway just thought I should clear that up before it gets out of hand.

GoodOlBoy

GOB,

I respect your determined effort to think things through logically and believe you will be most confident with whatever load your research tells you is best. That's what you should probably go with and I would not presume to advise you otherwise.

However, I would be interested in your being able to cite a single court case that bears out the assertion about hollow point ammunition. There may well be one out there, but I have not heard about it.

GOB

If you are truly interested in ricochets use Skeeter Skeltons old trick of the upside down wadcutter. Just make sure you empty the firearm though because I'm sure they "MIGHT" get ya in trouble in court.

I shot a jackrabbit with one and when I later looked at the rabbit I actually felt sorry for it. What a mess.

Bill

In the Case of Ken Gage

The DA argued that this constituted premeditation.

I have heard this argument used (I never said I had seen it used sucessfully, but sooner or later you will get a liberal enough judge) MULTIPLE times in court cases about shootings.

I can site more cases if you wish, or you can go do a little research and find TONS of court cases where a liberal DA argued that the simple USE of "hollow-point ammunition" constituded premeditation. IE You bought it because it would kill somebody ISN'T THAT RIGHT MR DEFEDANT!

Anyway I think it is ludicrus (or however you spell it) that it would ever even come up in court. But it has and will.


Billy D. - I had though about that. What was the slang term for it the flying ashtray? Anyway the problem is I DO know you should NEVER EVER EVER use handloads for self defense (Yet again see the argument on premeditation. YOU SPECIFICALLY LOADED THOSE TO KILL SOMEBODY DIDN'T YOU MR DEFENDANT!) AND I really don't want to handload anything else anyway. I think I have become handload lazy to be honest with you.

Good arguments though all. I had TRIED to find just plain old cylindrical lead wadcutters out there too because of the fact that (from what I have been told mind you) they don't ricochette as bad. Howsomever I have not found a company loading them.

Where it up to me I would pack a sawed off semi-auto 12 guard with alternating 00 buck and Rifled lead slugs. Tell me THAT double tap wouldn't end the argument.

GoodOlBoy

Hey Billy
 

I have also used ol skeeter's hollow base wad cutter loads..inverted . It was a very good load for self defense and I can tell ya there is no way the prosecution could use it for an argument in a court that you were using a hollow point. I have actually seen those ol things go sideways at a distance. As you said ..just empty the gun and throw the rest away....or empty all of 'em in the creep.

GOB I also applaud your patient way of trying to figure the best safest way to use your firearm. I personally don't think the Glasers are the way to go. Can yu show a preponderance of departments using the ammo for your stated reasons? Heck during the time of the skymarshals they didn't worry about the ammo used by their officers. There was a LOT of talk about explosive decompression in aircraft....but that was a worry that really wasn't necessary. Does the department you work for use this type of ammo(glaser)?? Try using a tried true round that has been shown to work well in defensive situations in numerous times and places. And prosecutions try all the time to put the most negative spin on any case they are trying. The hollow point argument just won't hold water...as there are a large number of police agencies using them. The defense attorney would only have to point that out and say then youare accusing the police of premeditated murder because they use hollowpoints. Boy could you see the Reverend(J J) getting ahold of that in big city papers. Hell every police shooting would be a murder by the police.