I almost always carry ball in my 45's although I have a few of the good HP's from Remington and today at a garage sale I bought a couple boxes of Winchester Black Talons for 10 bucks a box. They are really getting pricey. Mentioned it to a friend and he offered me 30 bucks a box for 'em. They have tremendous hollow points in them. I also have a few boxes of BT in 44Mag 9MM and now the 45 auto. I also got some other goodies