3,500 Acres of US unsafe for US Citizens

[Seawolf1090]

A REAL President would immediately stage a military operation in that chunk of forest, with fully armed troops, 'weapons hot' and full air support including gunships. ANYBODY in there shoots back, they get 'lit up'! All others get moved back to Old Mehico pronto, after being 'chipped' - found here again, it's ten years HARD LABOR in prison.

But our sorry excuse of an Illegal Kenyan in office does not have the brass to DO HIS JOB!!

[skeeter@ccia.com]

I think people will renege next election. Bet $ on it.

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by Rapier

"About 3,500 acres of southern Arizona have been closed off to U.S. citizens due to increased violence at the U.S.-Mexico border, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. The closed off area includes part of the Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge that stretches along the U.S.-Mexico border."
Fox News

Excuse me, but the US government can not secure its borders and has blocked US Citizens access to part of the United states, allowing Mexican criminals to take over 3,500 acres of our contry? FTF, Over!

O'Bama just pack your bag buddy you are outa here. This is way too much. The cops asked for 3,000 troops to bring the area under control, got nada.

The President's position is this:

He will not do anything to secure the border so he can keep the heat on the Republicans about passing some reasonable legislation to allow for some immigrants to stay here. In other words, Obama is alright with closing down the borders IF the Republicans are alright with passing something meaningful regarding the immigrants that are here right now.

Personally, I think we need to do both. Shore up the borders and pass some reasonable immigration regulation for those that are currently here illegally. When I mean reasonable, I mean that those here illegally can stay if they have no criminal history here for 5+ years, they pay an estimated income and FICA/Medicare tax of $3,000 for the past 5 years they were here (before you get your panties in a bunch realize that a married couple with 2 kids pay NO income tax on their first $46,000 of income. They only pay FICA/Medicare on that money to the tune of 7.65% which equates to $3,500), and some other requirements which escape me right now.

I am pretty sure that immigration to this country was a lot easier back in the 40's and 50's. Why do we have to make it so hard for good people to come to this country? Not every illegal is a terrible person.

[skeet]

Originally Posted by fabsroman

I am pretty sure that immigration to this country was a lot easier back in the 40's and 50's. Why do we have to make it so hard for good people to come to this country? Not every illegal is a terrible person.

Fabs you are right that it was a bit easier in the 40's and 50s..There is however a BIG but..Actually 2 very BIG buts. 1st Those same people that wanted to come here did it LEGALLY. You are a Lawyer. You certainly KNOW the difference. If those people who came here illegally get off scott free..what is to stop the illegal flow?? Sheesh..We have to have SOME teeth in our laws..It seems however that the liberal left in this country would sell their souls for these "new" votes. Heck the Republicans would too. I have an even better idea..Round 'em all up..tax 'em on past work..send 'em home keeping a data base on when they came and give them a first chance to come back..after the background checks and making certain they have PAID those same back taxes.. Heck it was sure easy for 'em to send the money back to Mexico..or wherever they came from..But make 'em understand. there is no get outta jail free card. Then we need to have an English language law and enforce it..Lets do the legal immigration law like Mexico..Never being able to vote..unless a person was born here after parents legal immigration..
2nd Since those people's who came here in the 40s and 50s the legislators in this country have seen fit to drive our job base off shore. What an idiotic idea..So we should restrict the amount of people who come here to those who will fill an existing job..Especially for people who come to stay..We surely do NOT need to create an even larger burden on society than we already have. At the same time we should also strive to reduce the dependency on the public monies by people who a are already citizens..and make those same monies unavailable to new members coming into this country...otherwise we are letting welfare receipients immigrate to this country. Stupidity to say the least.

Let the dissing begin

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by skeet

Fabs you are right that it was a bit easier in the 40's and 50s..There is however a BIG but..Actually 2 very BIG buts. 1st Those same people that wanted to come here did it LEGALLY. You are a Lawyer. You certainly KNOW the difference. If those people who came here illegally get off scott free..what is to stop the illegal flow?? Sheesh..We have to have SOME teeth in our laws..It seems however that the liberal left in this country would sell their souls for these "new" votes. Heck the Republicans would too. I have an even better idea..Round 'em all up..tax 'em on past work..send 'em home keeping a data base on when they came and give them a first chance to come back..after the background checks and making certain they have PAID those same back taxes.. Heck it was sure easy for 'em to send the money back to Mexico..or wherever they came from..But make 'em understand. there is no get outta jail free card. Then we need to have an English language law and enforce it..Lets do the legal immigration law like Mexico..Never being able to vote..unless a person was born here after parents legal immigration..
2nd Since those people's who came here in the 40s and 50s the legislators in this country have seen fit to drive our job base off shore. What an idiotic idea..So we should restrict the amount of people who come here to those who will fill an existing job..Especially for people who come to stay..We surely do NOT need to create an even larger burden on society than we already have. At the same time we should also strive to reduce the dependency on the public monies by people who a are already citizens..and make those same monies unavailable to new members coming into this country...otherwise we are letting welfare receipients immigrate to this country. Stupidity to say the least.

Let the dissing begin

I am a realist and not an idealist. I think charging these people $3,000 per year for 5 years and having a clean record for 5 years of being here will be penalty enough. Now, I am not saying this will be an ongoing thing. What I am saying is to have a window to allow people that have been here for 5+ years to apply to become legal. I have a client that is married to an American client of mine. She is the nicest woman in the world and doesn't even work. However, she isn't legal because her visa expired. Cracking down on everybody is a bunch of BS.

Now, telling these people that they will be deported will just send them further into hiding and make it that much more difficult to send them back. Are you willing to have your taxes raised to provide INS with the equipment and manpower to accomplish this Herculean goal of sending these people back. I already know the answer to that one, HELL NO, because that is how us conservatives view government. We want it smaller, but we want them to take care of this border problem with more manpower and equipment.

As far as the politicians shifting jobs overseas, we can agree to disagree on that one. I think we as a society shifted jobs overseas once we figured out we could buy an imported product for less than a Made in the US product. Yeah, the politicians helped, but there were plenty of others that helped too (e.g., unions, employees, consumers).

I'm pretty much not onboard with not being able to vote here "unless a person was born here after parents legal immigration". Essentially, that would leave people like my parents unable to vote after the legally immigrated here in the 50's, learned the language, became citizens, worked for 50+ years, and paid taxes for the same amount of time.

As far as Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, and other welfare type programs for the illegals, how do they actually apply for this stuff? Plus, what makes you think that ALL illegals are dirt poor? I know several that have a good amount of money. Granted, they probably did not pay any taxes on it, but they have it nonetheless.

Ultimately, I am looking for a middle ground on this entire issue so that we can actually get something done, instead of the BS that we have had over the past 10 years regarding this subject and a plethora of other subjects. Seems like neither side wants to compromise on much, so we are stuck with getting nothing done. How has that been working for us? I'm guessing not too well.

[Larryjk]

Skeet, The money to deport illegals could come from the programs they take advantage of that cost states like California or Arizona BILLIONS of dollars each year. Keeping the freeloaders here isn't free by a long shot. My ancestors were immigrants to this country. They came here legally and didn't fear "the man". If you are here legally you really don't sweat it if someone asks you for documents to prove you are legal. I have to "show papers" for all kinds of activities I get involved in. It is cheaper to kick someone back across the border OR OCEAN than to keep them here on our tab. FABS should understand this. Sometimes it is more expensive in the short run to stand on principles.

[skeet]

Originally Posted by Larryjk

Skeet, The money to deport illegals could come from the programs they take advantage of that cost states like California or Arizona BILLIONS of dollars each year. Keeping the freeloaders here isn't free by a long shot. My ancestors were immigrants to this country. They came here legally and didn't fear "the man". If you are here legally you really don't sweat it if someone asks you for documents to prove you are legal. I have to "show papers" for all kinds of activities I get involved in. It is cheaper to kick someone back across the border OR OCEAN than to keep them here on our tab. FABS should understand this. Sometimes it is more expensive in the short run to stand on principles.

Larry I guess we look at it through Rose colored glasses..But the truth is still the truth..They have broken OUR laws and we should reward them?? I don't think so..Fabs does..don't forget there will be attorney's coming out of the woodworks to defend these illegals actions. Think of this..who is gonna make the money on the illegals tax debts?? Who's gonna pay for the illegals attorneys to fight this tax mess. We the good and ready taxpayers..Not the illegals.. They will have a fixed penalty to pay.. As I said..Check the cost of Illegal immigration to just the County of San Diego...and multiply the cost nationwide..It is a horrendous figure..and yo and I are paying the costs. Illegal?? Yep they are...and they should be deported. Letme have the power to order it..As you said..bet the country would SAVE money...Here's a few other things. If they want to come and work legally..20 dollars a month back home would be a limit. Heck what's the limit you can send out of the country legally without reporting it. And the gummit would blast you for trying to take too much out! Time to stop this insanity.. Women running across the border and having kids?? They(the children) would NOT be citizens..and legally I don't think they are now. Fabs may try to prove other wise..but look at the original immigration laws. Think of how much money the women receive in aid to dependant children.. Do I feel bad for the kids..Not really.. I know it isn't their fault but what their mothers do to get the money is actually illegal..WTF..and we give it to 'em?? No sense whtsoever. Ameriacans always worry about the kids..BUT they are ILLEGAL...and what the mother does to try to make them legal is also illegal..fraud at the least. Sorry..I'm not an attorney and don't think like one, thank goodness. Yes Virginia..there is Black and White out there with no hint of gray at the very least in my eyes.. And I truly do think that I am a middle of the road American.. Not a communist like the people we have in charge right now..Not a liberal and only a mildly conservative person on most issues. On some issues I am just to the right of Ghengis Khan..

[popplecop]

Oh I hate to side with Fabs publically about members of the BAR. I've spent the last 50 some years around them and the vast and I do mean vast majority of lawyers are great people doing great work. Now I tend to lean toward the prosecuteing proffessionals a little heavier. Fabs, I enjoy good attorney jokes as do most lawyers I know do too, my only advise to you Fabs, stay out of politics. Now that being said Judgeships and DAs are good jobs.

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by popplecop

Oh I hate to side with Fabs publically about members of the BAR. I've spent the last 50 some years around them and the vast and I do mean vast majority of lawyers are great people doing great work. Now I tend to lean toward the prosecuteing proffessionals a little heavier. Fabs, I enjoy good attorney jokes as do most lawyers I know do too, my only advise to you Fabs, stay out of politics. Now that being said Judgeships and DAs are good jobs.

I have zero intention of running for office. I just do not have the stomach for politics and all the BS that goes along with it.