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Old 11-23-2003, 02:06 PM
duckster duckster is offline
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Phil Shoemaker's thoughts on Long range hunting

For what it is worth
Old 11-23-2003, 02:36 PM
quigleysharps4570 quigleysharps4570 is offline
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Odds are this will stir up a hornets nest.
Old 11-23-2003, 03:18 PM
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Skinny Shooter Skinny Shooter is offline
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Long-range shooting, while an enjoyable, challenging sport, has little, if anything, to do with hunting.
I guess that is where we gun writers come in. We, of all people, should understand that, right or wrong, we are often emulated. If we write that the .300 Ultra Mag shoots as flat as a guitar string and kills elk like lightning at 600 yards, then you can bet that next season someone will attempt it. In the hallowed name of journalism and freedom of speech, we can excuse ourselves of any culpability, but the best, most ethical writers not only strive to keep their shots reasonable but also donít feel the need to brag about distances. Those of us with real hunting experience should emphasize the importance that woodsmanship, tracking and stalking skills have in the overall enjoyment of hunting.
If those aren't elitist comments then what are?

Maybe what he should be doing as a "responsible" gun writer is leaving his prejudices out of the discussion.
Then hook up with some hunters who actually hunt long range and write about it in a manner that urges future LR hunters to practice, practice, practice and know thy equipment. Among other things.
Hunters need each other to stand together. Not provide more ammunition for the anti-hunters through ignorance such as this.
And this is another topic that will never be settled.
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Old 11-23-2003, 05:56 PM
doubleA doubleA is offline
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Equipment is being peddled as a substitute for stalking skills and marksmanship as a substitute for hunting prowess.
Killing live animals, though, is not the same as punching holes in paper targets, and varmint shooters are basically culling rather than hunting.
All too many long-distance shooters seem conspicuously shy of actual hunting and tracking experience
They need to realize that bragging about long-distance shots has the same effect on inexperienced hunters as bragging about fast driving does to teenagers.
In fact all of us who love hunting have an ethical responsibility, not only to the game we hunt but also to those with less experience. I donít mean we should go on a crusade and proselytize but rather by deeds and example show others our seriousness and commitment to hunting ethics. When someone claims to have killed an animal at some unreasonable range, ask why they didnít stalk closer. Tell them you find that much more interesting, more enjoyable and more the measure of a true hunter
I whole heartly agree with this article. Very well written by Mr. Shoemaker, props to him.

ROCK ON................................ AA
Old 11-23-2003, 06:39 PM
quigleysharps4570 quigleysharps4570 is offline
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Skinny Shooter, doubleA

I've always seen good issues from both sides of this topic. It still leads to "practice, practice, practice and know your equipment". Like I said though, this topic always stirs up a hornets nest and is never resolved. If a guy can do it fine, if a guy doesn't, fine. The guys that do it know their business, the guys that don't, they know their business. What bothers me are the ones in this world that shoot on rare occasion, but think they can make those shots and take them. They're the ones that make both sides of this topic look bad!
Old 11-24-2003, 12:29 AM
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mazter mazter is offline
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I have never saw anyone on here Brag about it, Actually they are Humble about it. And I think they are very Skilled at shooting that far & do the calculations they do to hit thier mark. I envy them, Alot. Not just anyone can Long Range Hunt , Let alone Shoot well That far. So I see Them as a Very Skilled people doing something most of us wish we could do. They are Hunter's just like anyone else, everyone has thier own method's. They have took it to another level, and people get Jealous because they are so good at what they do. Like I said I Envy them. I wish I had those skill's.

Everyone has an Opinion, And thats Mine.
~If I ever find my Inner-Self, I'd Kill it too.~
Old 11-24-2003, 12:09 PM
bigbrother bigbrother is offline
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I originally had a 3 paragraph rant typed in response to the article, but then I thought....that would be as narrow minded as the man who wrote it.

I am a longe range hunter. I've made witnessed kills to 753 yards. No, I haven't been forever. I've killed many deer with a bow, from 3 to 47 yards. Many with a handgun, from 15 to 125 yards. Many with a rifle from 10 to 335 yards. I've killed turkeys, pheasants, rabbits, squirrels, and a whole bunch of others with a shotgun. And yes, I've stalked (using loosely) groundhogs and shot them with a .22. Am I a bad hunter? I don't know.

What I do know is that it only does the world of hunting an injustice when I or any other "hunter" condemns another type of hunting. We all hunt for the same reasons, all in ways that make others think of new possibilities.

For that reason, it's no wonder I can't remember reading even a single other article written by that author.....and probably won't ever again.
Old 11-24-2003, 04:11 PM
Boyd Heaton Boyd Heaton is offline
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And Just who in the He!! is Phil Shoemaker???????
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Old 11-24-2003, 04:34 PM
quigleysharps4570 quigleysharps4570 is offline
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Beats me! The way this topic goes though, I'm sure you'll be finging out .
Old 11-24-2003, 04:38 PM
quigleysharps4570 quigleysharps4570 is offline
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Finding out, not "finging out" my mistake.
Old 11-24-2003, 05:09 PM
Boyd Heaton Boyd Heaton is offline
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I take it he is some big name gun writer.And it is clear to me that he knows NOTHING about "TRUE" LRH....So with that said.His opinion means about as much to me as to the reason why possum starts with a "o" and not a "P"
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Last edited by Boyd Heaton; 11-24-2003 at 05:33 PM.
Old 11-24-2003, 07:26 PM
Jack Jack is offline
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Phil Shoemaker is a guide in Alaska. I think mainly for bears, as a lot of his articles in the past have been about large bore rifles, and rifle reliability. He's written articles for quite a few years.
On the subject of rifles for big bears and difficult weather conditions, he seems to know what he's talking about.
Don't know that he's ever seen long range hunting done by someone who works at it.
He might well have seen some client try to do some 'long range hunting' with an 8 pound super dooper magnum rifle.....
ďMay we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.Ē
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"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter"
George Washington
Old 11-26-2003, 03:05 PM
ol_spark ol_spark is offline
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Phil's comment about a 300 or 400yd Hail Mary shot tells me exactly what he knows of what we call long range. Heck, that's a gimme for a practiced long ranger. I was talking to Ray Romain over the weekend and telling him about breaking clay pigeons at 550 yards while I was fire forming brass and he asked me "why so close". That comment tells me what Ray thinks long range is. Clearly Phil's comments were surrounding the clients he has been exposed to and the type of game he has hunted. I'm not offended by his comments, they don't apply to what I do. A person in a wheelchair may have a hard time stalking to within 100yds of one of Phil's big bears and thus never have that thrilling experience. He can still live the dream of the hunt by whacking a deer at 850+yds across a canyon though and that thrill is the one that's keeps him going.

Way to go big brother.
I agree. Just because you don't do it my way doesn't make it wrong. We all by a license and contribute to conservation, let's not become divided.
I only hunt on days that end in "Y"
Old 11-26-2003, 04:18 PM
bar_hunter bar_hunter is offline
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You know why there's a Second Amendment? In case the government
fails to follow the first one.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
Frank Sinatra

Sure I've got a permit. It's called the Second Amendment.
Ted Nugent on Gun Control

"The problem with some people is that when they aren't drunk,
they're sober." - William Butler Yeats

Old 11-27-2003, 08:31 AM
royinidaho royinidaho is offline
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Been Thinking about this topic

After a bit of pondering here's some thoughts.

This is prompted by a prmopt response I got from Boyd regarding velocity vs temperature. Hell, I'd a been years figuring it out.

Seems to me that these EXPERIENCED long range shooters have been there AND done it! If you haven't you may as well keep your yap shut as in Shoemaker and maybe some others. I'm sure his experiences are not based on the core group of people actually doing it. Maybe we otta chip in and fund a trip by a "shooter" to go on a Shoemaker hunt.

Kind of like the guy I was visiting with the other day. Got his elk with his new Browning 300 Win w/Boss @ some kind of long range.

He said he wasn't quite used to the new rifle yet. First elk he hit was in the foot or somewhere near there as his shots were hitting on the ground below it. Finally the last cow he shot at went down. He was quite proud of the "neck" shot on a running cow at a way out there distance. At that point my respect for this dude went well below the zero line. (Thinking of one lame cow out there trying to make it through the winter. Will most certainly in up in a wolf's belly.)

This also motivated me sufficiently to do the signature thing on this forum. Its a saying I picked up from a fellow down in Morgan City, Louisana. One of the most truthful things I ever heard.

Thanks again Boyd. I'm still sneakin up on it.
On the other hand................she had warts

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