Rifle ID?

[Ak_Red]

Does anyone know what this is? I have had it now for almost 20 yrs, it was given to me by my grandfather. I want to rebuild it, not to shoot but to put on the wall.

I have attempted to attach a picture. I hope it works.

If you know what it is, and have some places I can go to for parts, please post them here.

David

[Ak_Red]

The inside diameter of the barrel is .285. The barrel length is about 22 inches. Here is pic of the other side, though not as good. Thanks.

David

[ringo]

Small ring mauser in poor condition. Any stamps, words, crests, etc.?

[gumpokc]

there should be some markings on there, that would help alot.
My first impression is that it is part of a submachinegun.

[Ak_Red]

Originally posted by ringo
Small ring mauser in poor condition. Any stamps, words, crests, etc.?

L7332 (serial number?) stamped on barrel and receiver

R stamped on top of barrel between Rear sight and Receiver

Rear Sight is marked in even number increments (2,4,6,8,10 (shows as 1C), 12, 14, 16, 18, 20)

Looks like DW stamped by hand on bottom of receiver

No crests, words of any kind, or symbols on it. And there are no places where it looks like they have been removed.

Yes it is in poor condition, no way it can be fired. Just wanna make it look good for the wall..

David

[ringo]

I will guess it to be a 1893 Mauser design, made by Oveido (Spain) as a 1916 version for contract to a South American country, that would explain the pitting, poor maintenance, and scrubbing of the crest when it was exported for sale.

[Ak_Red]

I found this, after the post above about mausers. The paragraph talks about small ring mauser, but the picture is of as large ring.

[Ak_Red]

Originally posted by ringo
I will guess it to be a 1893 Mauser design, made by Oveido (Spain) as a 1916 version for contract to a South American country, that would explain the pitting, poor maintenance, and scrubbing of the crest when it was exported for sale.

Would they have been in the 7mm range? And how can I determine if it is a small or large ring? Thanks for the info!

David

[Gil Martin]

The best way to determine the difference is to measure the distance between the centers of the triggerguard screw holes.

Small ring measurement is 7 5/8" (7.625") (Mauser 93, 94, 95 and 96)

Large ring measurement is 7 7/8" (7.83") (Model 98)

You could also measure the receiver ring diameter.

Small ring measurement is 1 1/4" (1.3")

Large ring measurement is 1 3/8" (1.4")

This data came from Midway and is used to determine Adams & Bennett barrel specifications. Hope this helps. All the best...
Gil

[ringo]

Would they have been in the 7mm range?

Your barrel measurement of .285" is pretty close to .284" which is indeed 7mm, I would guess it to be chambered for 7mm mauser (7x57). Your concern on restoration will be the bolt, whether it is flat bottomed like a true '93 or round like a '95 which will prolly work anyway. I don't think Swede bolts work in other small rings, they are unique to themselves, by virtue of length. Your bottom metal (triggerguard) is the same on the small rings.

Follow Gil's post to truly identify whether or not you have a small ring action or not and go from there.

[Ak_Red]

Originally posted by Gil Martin

Small ring measurement is 7 5/8" (7.625") (Mauser 93, 94, 95 and 96)

Small ring measurement is 1 1/4" (1.3")

Large ring measurement is 1 3/8" (1.4")

Gil

Okay, measurements for the trigger guard screws (or what I picked out as trigger guard screws, pic attached showing where I measured) and receiver ring:

Trigger guard - 7 5/8"
Receiver ring - 1.3"

So... I have small ring mauser, possibly in 7x57, and possibly of spanish origin.

How can I determine if it is a 93, 94, 95 or 96? Or can I?

I looked in the receiver, the bottom of the rear is flat. The feed ramp starts out with a rounded indent, but is flat at the topmost forward part. Does this suggest a flat bottomed bolt? It is a two lug bolt, and the left hand lug is gonna have a channel cut in the center, to fit the rail in the receiver (all mausers could have this for all I know, but this is the first I have seen so I have no idea).

Is there something like an acid bath, or hot dip I can have done to clean it without hurting it further? It may not be a shooter, but I want it as close to it as possible, and I do not want to cause anymore hurt to it. And can the pitting be repaired (or should it?) to make a smooth finish?

Thanks for all the info. When I decided to bring this one back to the semi-living I visited gun shops all over town, none could tell me what I had. It took about an hour on here.

David

[Gil Martin]

I am confident these folks have correctly identified your action as a Model 1893 Spanish 7X57mm. To bring this back to live will be a long and costly endeavor. The action can be cleaned up with Birchwood Casey Blue and Rust Remover and then cold blued with G96 or similar product.

Parts are available from Gun Parts Corporation at www.gunpartscorp.com. You will need a lot of parts and a gunsmith to assure the replacement bolt headspaces correctly. It might be cheaper to find a Model 1893 Mauser and use it as a parts gun. How long is the barrel? Good luck on your project. All the best...
Gil

[ringo]

By process of elimination, the '94s and '96s are Swedish and the '95s have a 3rd lug notch the bolt sits in. Yours is not Swedish, nor does it have the notch, therefore, it is a '93.

I looked in the receiver, the bottom of the rear is flat This should measure approx .460". I got out my '93 and my '95 mausers; my '95 bolt (round) works in my '95 and '93, however a '93 bolt (square) only works in a '93. If your quote is correct about the area under the rear bridge of the action being flat, you have a '93. You have the option of either a '93 bolt which would be correct or a '95 bolt which would function and also fire the rifle without harming the shooter provided the headspace is correct!

Take OOOO steel wool and a little gun oil and gently rub the action to see what bluing is left. Pits are pits and they can either be filled with weld and the action reblued, or fill them with a polymer (JB weld) and use a bake on finish. An acid bath (phosphoric acid, naval jelly) will neutralize the rust and also remove the bluing (which is another form of rust Fe3O4), causing a reblue, refinish scenario.

While I was typing this Gil posted, follow his advice on what to do as the costs do not merit restoration.

[Ak_Red]

Using the information I got from your posts, I have spent the morning on the internet.

I found this web page -http://www.geocities.com/fritz125541/Unmarked1916

Please take a look and let me know what you think.

Reasons it stuck out:

1) I have the thumb cutout (as seen in a picture above)
2) I also have the oval gas escape port.
3) Most every post here leans towards the 1893, and this website indicates some of these were converted 1893's

Now alot of what he says is "I think, and "I assume" so I am taking this with a grain of salt. But, the pictures match mine, including the rear sight.

I am further along in this than in the last day than I have been in the last two years. My thanks to you all.

David

[Ak_Red]

Originally posted by ringo
Take OOOO steel wool and a little gun oil and gently rub the action to see what bluing is left. Pits are pits and they can either be filled with weld and the action reblued, or fill them with a polymer (JB weld) and use a bake on finish. An acid bath (phosphoric acid, naval jelly) will neutralize the rust and also remove the bluing (which is another form of rust Fe3O4), causing a reblue, refinish scenario.

While I was typing this Gil posted, follow his advice on what to do as the costs do not merit restoration.

I understand this is not going to be cheap. But this is one of the few things I have from grandfather and this is somehting I want to do. I don't mind the money (within semi-reason) if bringing it back can be done.

Originally posted by Gil Martin
The action can be cleaned up with Birchwood Casey Blue and Rust Remover and then cold blued with G96 or similar product.

Parts are available from Gun Parts Corporation at www.gunpartscorp.com. You will need a lot of parts and a gunsmith to assure the replacement bolt headspaces correctly. It might be cheaper to find a Model 1893 Mauser and use it as a parts gun. How long is the barrel? Good luck on your project. All the best...
Gil

I will check out the website, and the give the rust and blue remover a try. It looks as if someone has tried removing the blue before in places. The barrel is 22" long.

David

[ringo]

You and I both have 1893 Oveido mausers, at some time they were converted or rearsenalled to a Model 1916 standard, the most notable features included the addition of a gas port in the receiver to line up with the gas port in the bolt, and a thumb cut out. There was a further conversion that happened latter on when militaries around the world adopted the 7.62 NATO round, which we do not have to worry about. Spain wanted to go semi auto but could not produce enough, so to familiarize their troops with the new round, they took their existing bolt action and adapted them to the 308 CETME round, which ballistically was similar to the 300 savage and safe in the older 1893/model 1916 actions.

[Adam Helmer]

Ak_Red,

You have a 7x57mm Short Rifle M1916 based on the M1893 action. If all you have is the boltless action and barrel, then I would say your gun is far beyond economical refitting. If you want a wall hanger, get a M1916 Spanish Mauser and hang it on the wall, and oil it a bit more than the pictures of your action reflect.

Adam

[Ak_Red]

It would be cheaper to buy another 1893/16 to hang on the wall, but it would not be in line with what I want, which is to put this patricular one on the wall.

For any who want to follow along, I will post a thread in the gunsmithing or build it yourself (whichever is more appropriate) section showing my progress.

David

[Adam Helmer]

David,

Ok, so you want to refit your granddad's barreled action to put on the wall. Go buy a M1916 and swap off all the parts you need to create a wall hanger using your barreled action; that will be far cheaper than buying the parts one-at-a-time from a parts supplier.

Adam