Where oh where is America going?

[PJgunner]

Skeet said, "Sadly I think the powers that be would not heed a good lesson. They be IN CHARGE!! and the common citizen is dirt under their feet."

You just hit the nail on the head. Some of those "royals" have been in office so long that they feel they are not only better than us peons ans serf, (I refuse to be either one.) but that they know much better what is best for us. I got news for them. Considering all their unconstitutional spending that is doing absolutely nothing except bankrupting my country, I figure damnfew of them know the difference between their arse and a hole in the ground, even with a detailed map.
Remember that book, THE PETER PRINCIPLE? you know, where one rises to their highest level of incompetency? Look at the U.S. Congress and you see the Peter Princile in action. JMHO, but they work for us and they're doing a lousy job. If I'd done my job as bad as they're doing, I would have been fired. It's lpng past time the "royals' not only got canned, but put back in their place and are educated to the fact that they are not better than the est of us.
Paul B.
as hell!

[skeet]

Term limits

[VaRedneck]

This is a worrisome time.

I'm a carpenter by trade. A few years ago I was laid off from a small custom home builder. I've since found a decent job with a commercial builder. The housing bubble's....burst, was seen way before it made the evening news.

Today's look at the economy is deceiving. When asked how my company is doing or "construction" in general.....it's said...."we have so many million in contracts on the books just waiting for us. We're fine." Those contracts we're signed...last year. What's coming down the pike for next year is what worries me...or what's not coming....more like. Fewer opportunities....more competition....smaller profit margins in order to compete with smaller companies....many of whom (not all) show no signs of remorse for having hired cheap, unskilled....illegal labor.

11 Nov '08 will forever be known as the day the US ceased to be...as least the US as we knew it....to the detriment of us all.

The right started losing it's...power...grip....influence, years ago. The first real sign was losing the House. The media's influence played a major roll. That went unseen...or at least....wasn't dealt with by those that shoulda and coulda stepped up. They still haven't so much as stood up. Still sitting on their asses....content to wait.

Well....that, in a nutshell is what brought us to this....state.

The spendulous....for every pet project on the left's books....a budget that dwarfs anything ever proposed.....slashing the defense budget...."free" national health care.....and the final nail in the coffin will be cap and trade.....or the domestic version of the Kyoto Abortion.

People say...when the repubs get back in, it'll all go back. Wanna bet?

Take a look at SS. How's that "temp" program working out?

It all boils down to one aspect of our society...

The degredation of personal reponsibilty. No longer are people willing to stand up and take responsibility for themselves or their own actions.

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by skeet

Term limits

The big problem with Cap & Trade is that the people that enjoy the least amount of pollution will also enjoy the cheapest electric bills because the electric companies that do not pollute can sell their unused credits to those companies that do pollute a lot. Now, to pay for the credits the polluting companies need, they will have to raise the rates on their users. Not only will those people be living in smog, but they will have to pay extra for the smog.

With that said, I have no idea how to solve this problem. We could fine the crap out of the heaviest polluters, but that would just result in the rates being raised for the end users.

As far as wind power generation is concerned, I just read something today that says the US is #1 in the generation of power from wind.

Now, another way for us to help all of this out is to stop using the AC, and to use other high draw appliances late at night. If EVERYBODY did their part, we wouldn't have as big a problem.

Last but not least, you DO NOT have to wait until 2012. Half of Congress goes through an election every 2 years, so at least they can be replaced by 2010.

Good luck to all of us.

[skeet]

Well here we go again..

Originally Posted by fabsroman

The big problem with Cap & Trade is that the people that enjoy the least amount of pollution will also enjoy the cheapest electric bills because the electric companies that do not pollute can sell their unused credits to those companies that do pollute a lot. Now, to pay for the credits the polluting companies need, they will have to raise the rates on their users. Not only will those people be living in smog, but they will have to pay extra for the smog.

Fabs..my friend what part of this don't you understand?? This isn't about pollution.. Get with it here.. This is all about TAXES> Generation of MORE money for the gummit. They could care less about the pollution. You're starting to sound like one of the greenies> Are we as a nation creating the worldwide pollution problems solely?? If we are the only nation that does this cap and trade bullsh**t it won't make even 1% of difference worldwide. The Europeans have left cap and trade waaayyy behind in the dust.

With that said, I have no idea how to solve this problem. We could fine the crap out of the heaviest polluters, but that would just result in the rates being raised for the end users.

Problem?? See previous answer. The gummit in power at this time in this country wants only one thing..CONTROL...Controlling power generation will surely bring many to their knees in this country..They really wouldn't know how to live without their electricity. And don't forget the NIMBYs That is why we have no new refineries etc etc etc. And as I said..they surely don't want one of those nasty lookin windmills in their back yard. Not even solar panels cause they are ugly..sheesh! And the cost of setting up a solar generation for each house is way to high..as much as 35-40 thousand bucks at present costs.

As far as wind power generation is concerned, I just read something today that says the US is #1 in the generation of power from wind.

But look where most of the wind generation is..out here in the mid and rocky mountain west. As I said..Not In My Back Yard is their cry..but they want to be eco friendly?? One of the big financiers has already dropped his pipe dream about windpower generation. Found out there would be too much cost to get the power back to the people..

Now, another way for us to help all of this out is to stop using the AC, and to use other high draw appliances late at night. If EVERYBODY did their part, we wouldn't have as big a problem.

And here , again, we have a problem. Do you really think they are gonna stop..It's ok for everyone else to stop..but not THEM. You know... I'm not a big conspiracy theorist.. but it is looking more and more like Gore and his cronies are attempting to scare everyone into going along with them in lockstep..Just more control. Higher prices for us the consumers and no real net gain environmentally or economically. The extra taxes will just go to pay for more marxist programs. As Pogo would say..I thinks we is in deep do-do

[fabsroman]

Let me start off with saying that I am not in favor of Cap & Trade. However, I am in favor of some sort of regulation regarding pollution.

Why isn't everybody that is up in arms about carbon pollution (e.g., the smog you see in LA and the haze in New York City) up in arms about laws regarding littering? The crap being belched into the sky is the same thing as the crap being throw on the side of the road, just slightly different. When you live in Wyoming with nice clean air and beautiful skies, or on the Eastern Shore well away from DC, I guess this isn't that much of a concern.

As far as other countries are concerned, there isn't much we can do about them until they wise up. Again, WE could stop buying their goods, but that will not happen either because WE want everything made under the sun and WE want it as cheap as possible. I've been looking at Made In labels lately, and they are all made in China. It really pisses me off.

FYI - this government doesn't have a clue what they want except that they want to be re-elected, and it isn't looking that good for them in 2010 from what I have seen. What really talks is the lobby money. That is what really controls the government. Without that money and those backers, these politicians cannot get re-elected.

[skeet]

Originally Posted by fabsroman

Let me start off with saying that I am not in favor of Cap & Trade. However, I am in favor of some sort of regulation regarding pollution.

Why isn't everybody that is up in arms about carbon pollution (e.g., the smog you see in LA and the haze in New York City) up in arms about laws regarding littering? The crap being belched into the sky is the same thing as the crap being throw on the side of the road, just slightly different. When you live in Wyoming with nice clean air and beautiful skies, or on the Eastern Shore well away from DC, I guess this isn't that much of a concern.

As far as other countries are concerned, there isn't much we can do about them until they wise up. Again, WE could stop buying their goods, but that will not happen either because WE want everything made under the sun and WE want it as cheap as possible. I've been looking at Made In labels lately, and they are all made in China. It really pisses me off.

FYI - this government doesn't have a clue what they want except that they want to be re-elected, and it isn't looking that good for them in 2010 from what I have seen. What really talks is the lobby money. That is what really controls the government. Without that money and those backers, these politicians cannot get re-elected.

Let's answer this by paragaph.. Let me ask you Fabs..when has the government ever regulated anything for the common good in a reasonably competent manner.. . Governments are born to regulate but also born to fail miserably for the most part.

As far as the 2nd paragraph..you know not where of you speak. The Eastern shore air is even worse than the air yo breath. It is also one of the most cancer ridden areas in the US. as far as Wyoming..the only reaon the air here is clean to breath is because we have no "major" cities and few people. But we do have the west coast air to breath. As far as the world's air..Tell me Fabs..how do 300 million people affect the world so much more negatively than a Billion in India and a billion and a half(or more ) in China..And the Billion or so in all of Europe? Yep...we use more carboniferous fuels than China..or India.. but that is changing fast and they surely are not going to TAX themselves like the idiots in Washington want to do to us. That is ALL Cap and Trade is. A tax on us the consumer and a way for some businesses to make MUCH more money. Give us a real workable solution to our ecological problems.. I doubt you can do any better than the goobers running this country..Dems or Repubs.. Regulation really isn't the key...unless you want to regulate the coal using companies and make them stop polluting without charging the consumer for their polluting ways. Make 'em fix it without charging..TAKE HALF OF THEIR PROFIT and make 'em pay to fix the problems with the lost revenue. They have NO incentive to fix it..unless they can make a profit by doing so....ergo...Cap and Trade. And BIG Business will embrace cap and Trade because they can make more money from it. Let's point the fingers in the right direction.

As far as the politicians..It ain't looking good for who?? The Dems or the Repubs.. There ain't 'nuff difference between the two to make a hill of beans. Never thought I would say this but we need to make Term Limits and do it soon. 2 Terms and that is it.. even if it is 2 terms as dog catcher that is it. NO more anything. And we NEED to do away with all these people that work on the Congressmen and Senators. The corrupting influence of these Lobbyists is tremendous. Let's make lobbying illegal..and term limits will also reduce the amount of influence that lobbyists could bring to bear. The Dems are paying through OUR noses to make certain they are re-elected. I call them Dems but way too many are not democrats but Marxists. They are not much different than despots who take from you and give to those that will support them...rich or poor. Lets make 13 million illegals citizens..6 million will vote democrat next election..talk about corruption??? And there is a move afoot to remove the constitutional amendment limiting the president to two terms.. Shades of dictatorship!!

[PJgunner]

A bit OT, but something I haven't seen anyone address. There's all this talk about giant windmills and solar heating. Well, I dunno if in most places there is enough wind to do all that much good and they are IMHO ugly as hell. Solar heating can only work (?) in places where it gets hot, like the desert southwest and in other places with warmer climates. What happens to those solar panels after a strong thunderstorm with hail a half inch in diameter and bigger? Wiped out that's what. some of my neighbors went to solar heating for their hot water supply which kept the bill for the hot water heater down. The one next door got repalce three time in two summers because of hail damage during thunderstorm activity. I'm sure Owl Gore will ask the Congress to outlaw thunderstorms and other forms of inclement weather like cloudy skies keeping the sun away from the panels.
Cap and trade in total unmitigated BS put in place to keep us under Big Brother's thumb. After all, if they take all out discretionary cash though cap and trade taxes which will only go higher as they find new excuses to stick it to us, so that soon we'll be so broke that we will be under total control.
I just don't dare state exactly how I feel about all this. The insane are running the asylum, that's for sure.
Paul B.

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by skeet

Let's answer this by paragaph.. Let me ask you Fabs..when has the government ever regulated anything for the common good in a reasonably competent manner.. . Governments are born to regulate but also born to fail miserably for the most part.

Alright, we shall go through this paragraph by paragraph. Now, you do realize that government regulation is all around us, correct. When you stop at a stop light at an intersection, that is government regulation. When you don't kill somebody or don't steal from somebody because of the criminal consequences, that is government regulation. I think the traffic system and criminal system is regulated pretty well, even though it could definitely use some tweaks here and there. The airline industry isn't regulated too badly either. Would you prefer that there be no government regulation of the airline industry and that you rely on Delta, American, or whatever other company for your safety, whose main goal is profit and keeping the company out of bankruptcy?

Since this is a hunting board, how about the government regulation of hunting. Do you think hunters by themselves would ensure the existence of a species? Do you think the guides on the Eastern Shore would have stopped hunting the Atlantic canada goose population without the government putting a moratorium on them? How about black ducks and canvasbacks? What do you think would have happened to them if there were no season limits or closed seasons on occasion? If market hunting hadn't been outlawed, do you think we would have the waterfowl populations that we have right now. Yeah, government regulation isn't working in that regard either. Let me know if you want me to continue providing examples of where government regulation has worked pretty well over the years.

As far as the 2nd paragraph..you know not where of you speak. The Eastern shore air is even worse than the air yo breath. It is also one of the most cancer ridden areas in the US. as far as Wyoming..the only reaon the air here is clean to breath is because we have no "major" cities and few people. But we do have the west coast air to breath. As far as the world's air..Tell me Fabs..how do 300 million people affect the world so much more negatively than a Billion in India and a billion and a half(or more ) in China..And the Billion or so in all of Europe? Yep...we use more carboniferous fuels than China..or India.. but that is changing fast and they surely are not going to TAX themselves like the idiots in Washington want to do to us. That is ALL Cap and Trade is. A tax on us the consumer and a way for some businesses to make MUCH more money. Give us a real workable solution to our ecological problems.. I doubt you can do any better than the goobers running this country..Dems or Repubs.. Regulation really isn't the key...unless you want to regulate the coal using companies and make them stop polluting without charging the consumer for their polluting ways. Make 'em fix it without charging..TAKE HALF OF THEIR PROFIT and make 'em pay to fix the problems with the lost revenue. They have NO incentive to fix it..unless they can make a profit by doing so....ergo...Cap and Trade. And BIG Business will embrace cap and Trade because they can make more money from it. Let's point the fingers in the right direction.

Alright, I know not of what I speak. So, what you are telling me is that the Eastern Shore air sucked, and what is in Wyoming isn't that good either; however, we shouldn't worry about regulating this pollution, which is worse than I even thought according to your account of it Skeet. Of course, we can rely on the companies themselves to regulate this stuff and not pollute, isn't that correct. I'll give you a case study. Do some research on the Cuyahoga River in Ohio and compare it from the 60's to today. The reason it is so much better today is because of government regulation. Good Lord, just look at the Bay. If the government didn't step in with regulations, where do you think that would be. I'm not hooked on global warming, but I think we need to limit the amount of crap that gets spewed into the air. As far as India and China are concerned, there isn't much we can do about that. Now, do you lay awake at night wondering if your neighbor is recycling? I don't, but I make damn sure I do my part and recycle what I can and dispose of motor oil and other chemicals properly. I'm not a big fan of Cap & Trade, but I do think that carbon emission has to be regulated in some manner.

As far as the politicians..It ain't looking good for who?? The Dems or the Repubs.. There ain't 'nuff difference between the two to make a hill of beans. Never thought I would say this but we need to make Term Limits and do it soon. 2 Terms and that is it.. even if it is 2 terms as dog catcher that is it. NO more anything. And we NEED to do away with all these people that work on the Congressmen and Senators. The corrupting influence of these Lobbyists is tremendous. Let's make lobbying illegal..and term limits will also reduce the amount of influence that lobbyists could bring to bear. The Dems are paying through OUR noses to make certain they are re-elected. I call them Dems but way too many are not democrats but Marxists. They are not much different than despots who take from you and give to those that will support them...rich or poor. Lets make 13 million illegals citizens..6 million will vote democrat next election..talk about corruption??? And there is a move afoot to remove the constitutional amendment limiting the president to two terms.. Shades of dictatorship!!

That statement was meant to mean it isn't looking good for the Democrats. However, I will agree that we need a lot of new blood in there, and that we need to do something about lobbying. Keep in mind though that the NRA is a pretty big lobby too. Can Congress actually get along without lobbyists, and I am not talking from a money perspective, but form a work perspective. Don't the lobbyists draft up most of the bills that eventually become law? Somebody help me out on this one because I am not completely sure. As far as term limits are concerned, I think that is fair, but I think 2 terms in Congress just isn't enough for a politician to get up to speed and get anything done. I would give them 4 terms with mandatory retirement after the term you reach 65 years of age.

[DON WALKUP]

what ever happened to: "a government OF the people, FOR the people, BY the people..."?

i agree with term limits...NO one should be able to serve in ANY elected position for more than 10 years in his/her lifetime.

[skeet]

[QUOTE=DON WALKUP;331305]what ever happened to: "a government OF the people, FOR the people, BY the people..."?

It's still that way..of the people by the people for the people who think the rest of us should have exactly what THEY feel we should have. The people to them refers to the aristocracy..meaning themselves and their cronies

and I feel no more than 8 yrs in any position..no moving up..or down